The Car Thread

[93JC]

Toyota Yaris Hybrid

Topspeed is 105 mph, which is too slow for Germany but could suffice in the states.

The Richtgeschwindigkeit on the autobahns is 130 km/h (81 mph), is it not? 105 mph (169 km/h) should be more than adequate.

 

[entropie]

Hahaha, Richtgeschwindigkeit . Thats a good one ! That speed is a recommendation shown to foreigners crossing the borders . 81 mph is the point when the car has its maximum efficiency regarding speed and consumption, but you can always go as fast as you can when there is no extra speed limit.

In that regards I like that video. The guy goes 160 mph all the time and you just hear nothing, haha

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xYsFnZ2hhc&feature=related"].[/YOUTUBE]

 

[93JC]

Well, if you're not going to drive a hybrid at the most fuel efficient speed there isn't much point in owning a hybrid in the first place, is there?

 

[entropie]

No the problem is another: when I said its too slow for the Autobahn I meant you can get yourself in danger with a slow car on the Autobahn. The hybrid isnt perfect but its one of the first hybrid cars thats affordable, at least around here. I am waiting for the hybrid who combines efficiency and performance at a low price and that then I'll buy.

Since its with 11k euro and its low consumption a good car for commuters I found it post-worthy.

Any further questions ?

 

[93JC]

169 km/h is "too slow"? I've never been to Germany but the few Germans I know who have talked about the autobahns said most people are only driving 130-140 km/h anyway. I just thought it was an odd thing to say, to say a top speed of 169 km/h is "too slow" for Germany. I realize that the recommended speed of 130 is just a recommendation and drivers are free to travel as fast as they want in the unlimited areas but still, I thought Germans were supposed to be the most disciplined drivers in the world. Keep right except to pass!


Either way I think it's moot: Toyota's hybrid system (Hybrid Synergy Drive) is useless at highway speeds anyway. All hybrids are. The electric motor is used in low-speed situations and assists the gasoline engine when accelerating quickly, but at a high steady-state speed the gasoline engine provides all of the motive force. In fact if the car was being powered by the electric motor the battery would drain in mere minutes: the charging system can't keep up. Where hybrids provide an advantage is in cities, in heavy traffic. Not only do they have start-stop programming to shut the engine off when the car is stopped in traffic (a feature that seems to have become common in all small cars in Europe, something that hasn't been featured in any cars except hybrids in North America) but they have the electric motor to propel the car when moving slowly. In heavy urban traffic a hybrid can travel without using the engine at all except to charge the battery when it gets low.

I guess what I'm saying is if you live in a smaller town and travel the autobahns frequently I don't know why you'd want a hybrid in the first place. A Yaris Hybrid will perform exactly like its ordinary 1.5 L gasoline counterpart on the autobahn.

 

[entropie]

169 km/h is "too slow"? I've never been to Germany but the few Germans I know who have talked about the autobahns said most people are only driving 130-140 km/h anyway. I just thought it was an odd thing to say, to say a top speed of 169 km/h is "too slow" for Germany. I realize that the recommended speed of 130 is just a recommendation and drivers are free to travel as fast as they want in the unlimited areas but still, I thought Germans were supposed to be the most disciplined drivers in the world. Keep right except to pass!


Either way I think it's moot: Toyota's hybrid system (Hybrid Synergy Drive) is useless at highway speeds anyway. All hybrids are. The electric motor is used in low-speed situations and assists the gasoline engine when accelerating quickly, but at a high steady-state speed the gasoline engine provides all of the motive force. In fact if the car was being powered by the electric motor the battery would drain in mere minutes: the charging system can't keep up. Where hybrids provide an advantage is in cities, in heavy traffic. Not only do they have start-stop programming to shut the engine off when the car is stopped in traffic (a feature that seems to have become common in all small cars in Europe, something that hasn't been featured in any cars except hybrids in North America) but they have the electric motor to propel the car when moving slowly. In heavy urban traffic a hybrid can travel without using the engine at all except to charge the battery when it gets low.

I guess what I'm saying is if you live in a smaller town and travel the autobahns frequently I don't know why you'd want a hybrid in the first place. A Yaris Hybrid will perform exactly like its ordinary 1.5 L gasoline counterpart on the autobahn.

Man you are really argumentative.

Its too slow for the Autobahn because its acceleration sucks. The problem with the Autobahn is that on the right side the "disciplined" drivers go 130 km/h but on the left side the not so disciplined drivers go 200 km/h. Then you have a lot of transport trucks on the street which go 80 km/h. So when you want to overtake you have to accelerate quickly, change to the left and then back to the right, for that the engine is too weak. You'll always have the feeling on the Autobahn that you are breaking down the traffic and people who want to get fast will kick you from the left lane.

I am from the biggest metropolitan region in Europe, the Autobahn is always traffic jammed here. Still I thought its a good car for commuters who have to go long ways as well since its consumption is low, and the Yaris is leading the breakdown statistics since its a very reliable car which does not need a lot of repairs. I like Toyota for building reliable cars. The other advantage is that its cheap. So when you are driving city only, like you said, a hybrid is good. When you are only driving on highways, its still good because its cheap and reliable. And overall its good for the conciencse cause you drive a more green car.

And now this discussion is over, I feel like being on death row talking to you.

 

[Eugene Watson VIII]

get to take my wheelz on road soonskies

 

[93JC]

Man you are really argumentative.

I wouldn't have anything to say at all if what you said wasn't so contradictory.

Its too slow for the Autobahn because its acceleration sucks.

Why didn't you say this in the first place? You said it was "too slow", not that it "accelerates too slowly".

So what should the minimum acceptable power for cars in Germany be? 200 hp? 250? There must be a great many cars on the autobahns with inadequate power. Perhaps your TÃœV should include a power test in your yearly inspection, get all those underpowered death traps off the roads.

And now this discussion is over, I feel like being on death row talking to you.

 

[entropie]

you remind me of my workmate. since his wife left him he argues about anything with me.

average hp with cars here is 160. thats enough for the Autobahn. you can achieve that performance number cheaply in production by two turbo chargers. that way even a 1.6 liter engine can be brought to high HP. the most famous car in that row is the golf gti.

 

[93JC]

Maybe you get into arguments, with your co-worker and others, because you start them. You certainly seemed to enjoy picking an argument with me with hostile and condescending remarks like "Any further questions?" and "And now this discussion is over, I feel like being on death row talking to you."

 

[entropie]

ok you are right i will stop provoking you and wont post false things about cars no more. are we friends again ?

 

[93JC]

Sure.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

800HP IS THE NEW BLACK – THE ENGINES OF GATEBIL

If you haven’t noticed by now, Gatebil Rudskogen was a pretty wild place. When I arrived I really didn’t know what to make of it but quickly discovered it’s only too easy to become overwhelmed. With so much going on at any time just trying to decide where to go and what to do becomes a major ordeal. The on-track action is incredible, the campgrounds are insane and the paddocks are packed. Inevitably I usually found myself doing what I enjoy most, investigating the machines.

As I discussed yesterday, the variety of cars on hand was like nothing I’ve ever experienced before. Sure I’ll admit that most of what I saw could perhaps be found elsewhere, but normally you’d have to attend at least three separate events to see all of the cars available at Gatebil. It should come as no surprise then that the engines powering these incredible cars are just as diverse as the bodies which cloak them.

Under virtually any hood you’re in for a surprise and there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason behind the concoctions. I spent a good portion of the weekend just walking around surveying engine compartments and speaking with the owners to find out more about them. Half the time I’d walk up to a car and peek under the hood and have absolutely no idea exactly what I was looking at.

Of course I don’t mean in the fundamental sense, a turbo is a turbo, but I encountered many cars and engines that I had never seen before. Sometimes the line between factory and custom became rather blurred, particularly on some of the cars that were well built. I’d see an engine or gearbox setup that would look so extreme I thought what was surely a swap wasn’t, and conversely some setups that looked entirely factory but were in fact a very complex conversion.

After sorting through hundreds of engines in my head I did what comes naturally and compartmentalized them. Later I was able to sit down and rethink what I had seen to find patterns in the matrix which could be sorted into groups. With some luck I eventually sorted them into three basic groups: Gatebil level 1, 2 and 3 if you will. Level 1 is the bare minimum for a Gatebil car where the owner has retained the factory engine but added a crap load of power.

This approach was most commonly seen on cars that tended to be either a sportier car from the factory and/or one that was produced in limited quantities, and, hence is more valuable in an original state. That’s not to say that these engines were boring as many still had very large snails bolted to them. More often than not these were also some of the cleanest bays I came across.

The next level is where you start to see some engine swaps but they are kept within the same family. Some of these swaps were as simple as removing a base model engine and bolting in the top of the line version, while others required a complete custom solution. Level 2 conversions seemed to be particularly popular with the Audi and BMW.

I found more often than not the engines are wisely selected for bang-for-buck rather than flashy exclusivity like they usually are in America. Take for example the E30 one image back with a M50 swap which costs a fraction of an S50 but probably cranks out similar numbers with the massive turbo in place. Others opt for the best of the best available like the E21 above with a third generation M3 swap, cranking out just over 1000hp!

The final stage is what Gatebil has become famous for, the totally looney extreme conversions. Quite often these will be more than mere engine swaps and are usually accompanied by custom positioning and a drivetrain reassignment as well. A lot of the cars that fall into this category are quite easy to spot like this Toyota Corolla which has been converted to a turbo RWD monster.

Others aren’t quite as easy to discern and there are cars built to a very high standard that appear to be completely factory if you don’t know what you’re looking at. Take this Citroen, for example, which appears as though the owner hasn’t done much aside from polishing a few bits and adding some hard water pipes when in reality it’s a very complicated conversion.

Even more extreme still are those who have literally chosen an engine platform and built the rest of the car around it. Being that it would be a little difficult to stuff a V8 and two turbos into the back of a Porsche Boxster, the guys at Elite Projects decided to hack it away and then secure what little body was left to the engine.

[YOUTUBE="gEpL5oUYl_8"]Porsche Boxster Elite Projects @ Gatebil 2012 [/YOUTUBE]

The result speaks for itself.

Of course the Speedhunters crew came hard with a group of insane engine setups of our own. This was the first time I ever saw DMac’s Ultimate 86 in person and it is quite the incredible machine. When you combine a turbocharged rotary with an ultralight hachi-roku you have an instant crowd pleaser, even at a place as unruly as Gatebil.

On the subject of crowd pleasers, Mad Mike’s quad rotor FD definitely stole the show at Gatebil, literally. As Rod put it, any time Mike was on track he was a creator of joy. When his car would fire up in the paddock area he became an automotive pied piper with a trail of loyal devotes following him every time he headed onto the track. Winning both the drift and power slide competitions, I think there’s no doubt that the Madbul left its mark on Rudskogen.

It goes without saying that Norway’s own Frederic Aasbo’s highly anticipated 86-X build was also met with much excitement, despite some teething problems. I think it’s safe to say that this is the most radical GT-86 on the planet right now and to pay homage to his Supra roots Frederic decided to keep the new car 2J-powered, but he wasn’t the only one rocking the engine.

In fact the 2JZ swap seemed to be about as popular as the JZA80 Supra and the straight six could be found under many bonnets. One of the more interesting conversions I saw was sitting in a BMW 2002. Despite the shockingly clean bay, this isn’t a show car but rather a serious drift vehicle designed to be pushed to its limits.

One Supra swap that really surprised me was sitting inside of a pristine and unsuspecting looking E30 M3. From the outside it looked immaculate with nothing more than a set of upgraded wheels hinting at any performance enhancements. However lurking beneath the bonnet was an unbelievably tidy installation. Considering how pleasurable the factory version is to drive, I can only imagine how fun this thing is!

This was a fairly common scene at Gatebil, peeking in for further inspection. Here you see Stephan Papadakis and myself trying to figure out exactly what the hell it is we’re looking at. It’s clearly a swap, but we weren’t sure quite what and whether it was air or water cooled. It turned out to be the latter and in the image I’m pointing to a water pump while Steph examines the pipes routing to the front-mounted radiator.

After speaking with the owner I learned VW bus is powered by a turbocharged Vanagon boxer engine producing roughly 550hp. Everything attached to the engine has been custom built including the manifolds and fluid systems which include an external oil tank for the dry sump and remote pressurized coolant overflow. Apparently he has future plans of switching the gearbox for something sequential and turning up the boost. Nuts.

Bearing in mind hundreds of engine conversions, each seemingly more insane than the next, I think this may have been the most shocking swap I encountered. It’s a BMW 7-series V12 which has been turbocharged and the power numbers alone are likely to cause brain hemorrhaging: 1380hp and 1180lb-ft of torque. WTF!?

Helping to get the power up there is a massive Garrett GT-47R turbocharger which is feeding 2bar (29psi) to the custom intake plenum. The individual MSD coils with huge high tension cords for each cylinder look aren’t just there to look cool but ensure reliable spark. From the outside this 550 looks quite boring and I’d never imagine that it would have such a mental engine under the hood.

Certainly a sleeper isn’t a unique look at Gatebil, nor is it what makes this car special. Ironically even the unbelievable power numbers are still not enough to place the car in a league of its own and it’s not particularly difficult to believe that such an engine has been fitted to the chassis… what is incredible and unique is that it has been shoehorned in without cutting, bending or smashing anything out of the way.

Careful measurements were taken to determine the exact placement of certain components and there is virtually no room left to occupy anywhere in the engine compartment. Virtually every gap has been taken up by either relocated factory equipment or meticulously constructed custom pieces. There are areas where the clearance between certain components is less than a few millimeters.

However when I really sat down and thought about it I think the most unique engine bay belonged to a Skyline you may recall seeing before. This car has an ex-NASCAR V8 shoved so far back into the firewall that the entire engine now sits behind the steering rack and is virtually inside the cockpit with the driver. But it’s not the engine’s history, its 900hp or the way it has been fitted to the chassis that makes it unique; it’s simply that this is the only car from all of Scandinavia that I can recall not having a turbocharger. Gatebil, it’s just that kind of place.

More Gatebil stories on Speedhunters

More stories from Sean Klingelhoefer on Speedhunters

-Sean

 

[Nocapszy]

the latest on my subaru:
i've gone back to "stock" suspension - stock struts with vastly stiffer springs. [spring rates were 504/336, now 224/195]
much more comfortable ride, more sensible ride height, and a better front:rear springrate ratio.

additionally, i've replaced my 17mm stock rear sway bar with a 24mm adjustable rear sway.
i have it on the stiffest setting, which means it responds more like a 27mm bar. the front sway is 22mm, so now i actually have a significantly stiffer rear sway than my front.
so with the more balanced springrate front:back and an inverted body-roll profile, i'm no longer understeering like they say subarus are supposed to.

i can even get the car to wash wide with a touch of oversteer if i tip in fast enough and stay on the throttle.

this is awesome.

there's a few other power mods in the works, but i'll post about those when the time comes.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

[YOUTUBE="FA6fMRQ0p5Q"]Ready for Gatebil 2012?[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Nocapszy]

'sup?

 

[Rex]

http://www.sol.no/motor/2012_01_05_666_de-beste-parkeringsvideoene.html

Anyone got other good parking videos?

 

[Nocapszy]

this isn't the parking thread.

Internet is full of videos of drivers who clones it when they park. And there are of course fun to watch.

Well, there are some out there that really shows that they have super genes when it comes to parking. Take a look at the rocks below.

Firstly, there are those who believe that women can not parallel park. Well, there are always alternative methods:

it is many hilarious.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

'sup?

Looks sick man!

Just finished watching Fernando Alonso clean up in the German Grand Prix in F1.

 

[Nocapszy]

but the needle. look at the needle!
my peak is 24psi!

just kidding. i got some overboost a while back while tuning and the gauge still has 24psi as peak in its memory.

i didn't watch that race, so i have no comment.