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  1. #11

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    Oh. I meant to add this bit, so as not to misinform:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Hell, at CERN, the previously inviolable speed of light was just violated. Time to rewrite the science books.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...light-not.html
    http://dvice.com/archives/2011/10/speedy-neutrino.php

    I think this sort of things happens with relatively somewhat often. I remember there was something a few years ago that was similar, but I don't remember the details.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Hmmm. I get what you mean, and I agree with you. However, there is a deep rabbit hole regarding that too.

    Inherent assumptions made:
    1) There is an objective truth out there
    2) "science" seeks and "finds" them
    I take this as a given. Our inability to determine it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    As for the rest, I don't think we disagree. Your post seems to argue that science as a process is not infallible, which is my point as well. I might not be making myself clear. My position is that the universe is governed by definite inarguable laws. The process of determining how these laws work ("science") is much more up for grabs, and too many people confuse the latter for the former.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    The search for "truth" actually is a religious topic, it shouldnt be transferred 1on1 to science. Science means the analysis of the existence and its completly free from idealism.

    I often have the impression that scientific research is hold like a religion in America. Something like the "guardians of religion" hold their truth and the "defiants" the science people hold their truth. You often find in posts remarks by people to underline their statements by quoting scientific research as a sort of proof to their theory. What all have in common is that fundamental hardliner approach to assume that there actually is a truth, a kind of black and white or the axis of evil and the axis of light. Science but means that there is a third option, which is there maybe no answer to all or life basically is the sum of a lot of shades of grey and that never really manifests in american science.

    Its my impression as an onlooker and I dont want to sound anti-american that religion and science and some sort of egoistical proft-oriented pragmatism are kinda mixed up here. I myself always had America as a sort of rolemodel for me, but when I heard that americans think nuclear power is the best energy source we have, that climate change has become a nagging feeling that one has to ignore so it doesnt bug, because it cant be proven and that creationism is an equally valid theory like darwinism, I dunno: my scientific respect began to stumble.

    Then again maybe I am wrong and exactly the basic openess to even the most unrealistic theories is what the real scientific method is about.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    As others have said, science is founded on the idea of falsifying. Not declaring any truth. It has no viewpoint to even question. One can only question it's findings.. and any scientist would tell you that's fair game. They even welcome it. It makes science, and the world even, better when you do. But if you don't, and simply criticize, then that's the only reason why you might make enemies in those communities. And it's not because of opposing ideology. It's because you're being stupid.

  5. #15
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    ok i got that . still i dont think being a good critic makes you automatically to someone who is good at inspiring others. dont think that suffices to make you stupid. but i think too that someone who is a good critic can be likely a good inspirer. i just tend to limit myself to being a critic cause i am stupid
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    ok i got that . still i dont think being a good critic makes you automatically to someone who is good at inspiring others. dont think that suffices to make you stupid. but i think too that someone who is a good critic can be likely a good inspirer. i just tend to limit myself to being a critic cause i am stupid
    I thought you were a scientist. Or an engineer at least, and an enthusiast. Why would you include yourself among the critics? You seem like more of a scientist than I am, for sure.

    Anyways, I'm just saying it's stupid if you criticize scientific findings with little or no scientific findings of your own to counter them. There's no dialogue there. Just randomly disagreeing is, in fact, "stupid".

    Wait, lets say that it's simply "unhelpful". What would be stupid is bringing out the juju beans and start chanting about how we're all living on top of a giant turtle shell, and science simply has it all wrong "just because". That's definitely "stupid". And not "inspired". There's no other word for it.

  7. #17
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    you have a clear point there.

    Regarding myself, I am no scientist and Ill never be. I dont trust statistics which I havent falsified myself and I am too messy and unconcentrated to base my arguements on facts. i am a much worser creature and far closer to any religious dogma than I ever wanted to get. I am believer of my own visions and want to make them come true. and one of this vision is building the warp core and doing that with renewable power supplies that wont harm the planet for my children. no fact, may it monetary or statistical could turn me away from that vision and make believe atomic power was good.

    being a critic isnt necessarily what it takes to have an inquisitive mind. critics are most often people who didnt achieve for themselves what they wanted to in society and feel underappreciated. i count myself to those and its my own fault. i tho will never claim for myself that i am a scientist nor do i want to say artist. if i'ld surely now what i am, i guess i wouldnt be here
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #18
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Get to work then! I need a warp drive.

  9. #19
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    ouh yeah you can count on that ! And Ill mark today red in my calendar. Ill call it: the day I received a lesson in Fe from an istp .
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    ouh yeah you can count on that ! And Ill mark today red in my calendar. Ill call it: the day I received a lesson in Fe from an istp .
    Is that Fe? I just want a warp drive dude. Life can be boring sometimes for the simple fact that I'm not a space pirate. That could be Se.

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