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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    First, I like Macs. Therefore they are better.
    First, I like Linux. Therefore it is better.

  2. #22
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If you want to do all this and spend less money, AND not be treated like an idiot by your own OS, use Linux.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon Corax View Post
    First, I like Linux. Therefore it is better.
    Well, I've never really used Linux . Heard great things about it though. So, I can't really speak to it at all.

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  3. #23
    Member Matt_s's Avatar
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    I'm not very computer literate and dual boot xp/ubuntu works for me. I use the windows side for games and netflix. I use ubuntu for everything else. I much prefer the presentation and lack of bloatware on Linux. I'm not tech savvy enough to run a virtual machine with any competency so when I can't do something on ubuntu, I just jump over to xp.
    The best-laid schemes o' mice an 'men
    Gang aft agley
    -Robert Burns

  4. #24
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Well, I've never really used Linux . Heard great things about it though. So, I can't really speak to it at all.
    One more point. From what I understand, Linux is more secure than the other two if configured correctly. I think Mac is probably the least secure OS of the three due to the number of vulnerabilities in the software. It just isn't targeted so much as I said.

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  5. #25
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    One more point. From what I understand, Linux is more secure than the other two if configured correctly. I think Mac is probably the least secure OS of the three due to the number of vulnerabilities in the software. It just isn't targeted so much as I said.
    I agree with you for the previous release of Mac OS X (Snow Leopard). The address space layout randomization (ASLR) was worse than the implementation on Windows. ASLR makes it harder for malicious code to make calls into libraries by randomizing where those libraries are located in memory. This makes it much harder to maliciously write files, execute code with elevated privileges or perform other malicious acts.

    For Mac OS X Lion, though, Apple greatly improved its ASLR implementation. In addition, they introduced the Mac App Store for Mac OS X that requires signed code that enumerates needed privileges. They also introduced APIs that allow users to select files to load/save but does not make other file access (or network access, in many cases) available to the application binary itself, and have encouraged developers to split applications into a UI executable and a back-end executable (both with very limited permissions). The Safari browser on the Mac is now split into multiple processes, which makes it very difficult forHTML engine bugs to introduce vulnerabilities, since HTML parsing takes place in a separate process than page and UI rendering. Granted, the new version of Safari in Lion was kind of narcoleptic until recently, but you have to give them credit for making fundamental changes to improve security.

    While I don't like the "gated community" of the App Store, the requirement of signed binaries with a limited set of permissions does increase security. Some security experts have rated Mac OS X Lion to be the most secure of the popular OSes. I, personally, wouldn't go so far.

    Regardless, Lion is not perfect and security exploits still get found, as they do in all OSes. Plus, there are a few OS-X-specific trojans out there, and there's little that can protect you from your own ignorance or stupidity.

    In addition, there is the orthogonal idea of "safety" (vs. security). Mac OS X has traditionally been one of the "safest neighborhoods" to occupy, with very few exploits found in the wild. Conversely, Windows is the most frequently targeted OS, so needs every bit security it can get.

  6. #26
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    Smile The Protestant Head and the Catholic Heart

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    First, I like Macs. Therefore they are better.
    They use Macs in heaven and PCs in the other place.

    Of course it is a mater of faith, common sense, and good taste whether you use the Catholic Mac or the Protestant PC.

    And although it is not PC (Politically Correct) to say so, Protestantism has had its day. The literate, individual Protestant is morphing into an etribal Catholic in the global village. Even Marshall McLuhan was a Catholic. And really, to understand the internet, we need the sensibility of Catholics.

    The head is being replaced by the heart.

  7. #27
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    They use Macs in heaven and PCs in the other place.

    The head is being replaced by the heart.
    Then there is Linux, for the soul, and used in the here-and-now.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #28
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I agree with you for the previous release of Mac OS X (Snow Leopard). The address space layout randomization (ASLR) was worse than the implementation on Windows. ASLR makes it harder for malicious code to make calls into libraries by randomizing where those libraries are located in memory. This makes it much harder to maliciously write files, execute code with elevated privileges or perform other malicious acts.

    For Mac OS X Lion, though, Apple greatly improved its ASLR implementation. In addition, they introduced the Mac App Store for Mac OS X that requires signed code that enumerates needed privileges. They also introduced APIs that allow users to select files to load/save but does not make other file access (or network access, in many cases) available to the application binary itself, and have encouraged developers to split applications into a UI executable and a back-end executable (both with very limited permissions). The Safari browser on the Mac is now split into multiple processes, which makes it very difficult forHTML engine bugs to introduce vulnerabilities, since HTML parsing takes place in a separate process than page and UI rendering. Granted, the new version of Safari in Lion was kind of narcoleptic until recently, but you have to give them credit for making fundamental changes to improve security.

    While I don't like the "gated community" of the App Store, the requirement of signed binaries with a limited set of permissions does increase security. Some security experts have rated Mac OS X Lion to be the most secure of the popular OSes. I, personally, wouldn't go so far.

    Regardless, Lion is not perfect and security exploits still get found, as they do in all OSes. Plus, there are a few OS-X-specific trojans out there, and there's little that can protect you from your own ignorance or stupidity.

    In addition, there is the orthogonal idea of "safety" (vs. security). Mac OS X has traditionally been one of the "safest neighborhoods" to occupy, with very few exploits found in the wild. Conversely, Windows is the most frequently targeted OS, so needs every bit security it can get.
    I think the bottom line is really about vulnerabilities that are being exploited. It will evolve over time. Today, Windows is the worst because even if technically it is more secure, there are many more targeted attacks. If I'm a crook, I'd rather spend 100% of my time focusing on an OS that represents 90% of the population. I won't waste my time on the population that represents 10% (Macs). So Macs are more secure because they are less popular.

    Again - Linux - I don't know. It probably heavily relies on how well it is configured and I don't know the defaults. If it's like Unix, there are a lot of things to do right and wrong.

    Edit: Actually, I could have described this better. Macs are safer and not more secure. Seymour brought this to my attention. The analogy he brought up is that it is like having better locks on your door (more secure) vs. living in a low crime neighborhood (safer). It's an excellent analogy and a better word to describe it.
    Last edited by highlander; 12-17-2011 at 02:09 PM.

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  9. #29
    Member Zaid's Avatar
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    I am in an odd boat, I love my Mac, but not for its OS, but for its hardware. As silly as it sounds, I own Mac laptops simply for their track pads. No one else seems to get it quite the same way.

    Though I do not think Mac's are superior to PC's, I've noticed it all comes down to preference, and ultimately what you have been used to.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I completely disagree. There is a lot more malware targeting Windows than Macs. No comparison. There is a good reason. The cyber-criminals make a lot more money targeting Windows machines because they are so much more prevalent. It's not that the Mac is so much more secure. It's just that they are far less of a lucrative target.
    Mac's are more secure, because of the way files are downloaded and installed, as well as being a less lucrative target. This view was reflected in my post, I believe you have misread it.

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