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  1. #11
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catbert View Post
    Neurons themselves are far too large to behave in a purely quantum mechanical way, so the comparison is analogous.

    I wouldn't say that the brain is a 'quantum computer', but I would agree that these techniques are a more natural way of modelling the way we think.

    I felt the article didn't really explain quantum computing well at all. The key word for me is superposition, the fact that the system can be in all of the possible states simultaneously. And if you like to think classically, then all of these (eigen)states are effectively interfering with one another (imagine the set of incorrect solutions cancelling one another out). Such that the system will provide the correct answer with high probability when an operation is performed (Depending on the quantum algorithm used).
    I have read the article and agree with Cat. It may be true that the fuzziness of the quantum world may reflect the fuzziness of the human mind, but there was too little explanation on how that could be put in relation. after all we are in terms of computing still dependant on boolean logic and I dont see the immediate connection from a technical pov between the double slit experiment and a direct realization of an autonomous robotic bartender.

    The relation drawn in the article has a romantic ring, cause it gives physics are more humane look and that even by using analogies to quantum physics, so a rather complicated area of that field. but its ultimately like seeing human traits in a cat, just because you can draw that relation doesnt realize a method to train the cat to cook for you.

    another great cat analogy by entropie that must be your avatar @cat xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diederik Aerts
    Let me first tell you that in the first phases of this investigation my thoughts where that the specific quantum formalism would only play a limited role in all this, and most of all we needed to look for general non-Kolmogorovian and non-Boolean structures to model human thought. In the course of the investigations however at different times I was stumbled by the sheer power of the quantum formalism itself to model human thought, hence now I do believe that something deeper is touched upon than merely coping with non-Kolmogorovian and non-Boolean structures.

    - Quantum theory is in some way a double layer mathematical theory. Calculations are done on the deeper layer of a complex vectors space, and then at the end of the calculation when contact is made with experiment, the deeper layer is squared (by taking literally the square of the absolute value of the complex numbers involved) to give rise to probabilities that can be compared with relative frequencies of outcomes of experiments. But not only calculations are done on this deeper underlying mathematical layer, for example, also when two or more systems are combined, this combining is done on the deeper layer, and this is what gives rise to the existence of the weird quantum phenomenon of entanglement. Recently we have proved that exactly this same entanglement exists when in human reasoning (very simple) concepts are combined (see: http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.1322), which shows that 'the deep layer is also present in human reasoning'. In fact, before finding the explicit appearance of entanglement there were other signs in this direction, and in http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/0810.5332 an attempt is made to describe what we have called 'the quantum conceptual mode of human thought', which resembles in some sense intuitive thought. A technically more difficult article goes further into this (http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/0805.3850). Hence, at the actual stage of investigation, I do believe that more than just capturing the fuzziness of human thought is at stake. If this is true, it means that the Quantum Cognition approach to model human thought is definitely more powerful than, for example, the fuzzy set approach (with fuzzy logics), which indeed only captures the fuzzy aspect of human thought.

    - A second possible reason, for me personally as a physicist at least, of why the quantum formalism works well in modeling human thought, is much more speculative, but worth mentioning. This second reason is not investigated within the Quantum Cognition community, since its focus is not on 'cognition' but on 'quantum physics' itself. So I work on it as a quantum physicist, alone at the moment (its too speculative still to engage young researchers in it at this stage), and mostly in elaborating a new type of interpretation of quantum theory itself. In this new interpretation quantum particles are seen as conceptual entities carrying conceptual information. This investigation is at this moment in a purely explorative phase, and for those interested there are three published articles (http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/1004.2530, http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/1004.2531, http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/1005.3767). If this new interpretation is true, it would mean that the quantum formalism works so well to model human thought, "because" also microphysics quantum dynamics is a conceptual interaction process. Hence, the mathematics of the deep structure of a cognitive process would appear in both cases naturally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #13
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    "Perhaps only humans, with our seemingly illogical minds, are uniquely capable of discovering and understanding quantum theory. To be human is to be quantum."
    This is so poetic.

    Thanks for the article.

  4. #14

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    @entropie
    @Catbert
    @Salomé

    I think we can have quite a deep discussion about this.

    Ultimately, vector spaces, including Hilbert spaces are built up from our normal logic and axiomatic set theory. So there is nothing magical going on in that respect.

    The powerfull idea is changing where we map reality to in our formalism. As was quoted by Salomé, there is a hidden layer of mathematics at work in the Quantum formalism.

    The thing that kept popping up in my head when reading the article was the vector space approach to neural networks, and pattern classification in general. The singular value decomposition has proven to be a powerful tool in pattern classification, so it is not surprizing that similar tools for modeling help with human cognition.

    There is a theory floating around, that the neocortex is nothing more than a hierarchical assosiative memmory. If this is true, then the basis of human cognition is just an emmence pattern classification machine...and that pattern classification machine would be very well described by some vector space, if not by a Hilbert space.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #15
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    There is a theory floating around, that the neocortex is nothing more than a hierarchical associative memory. If this is true, then the basis of human cognition is just an eminence pattern classification machine...and that pattern classification machine would be very well described by some vector space, if not by a Hilbert space.
    Have you read that book? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catbert View Post
    Have you read that book? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
    I read it a long time ago. I think it was an older revision of the book. The summary is what I stated. That the neocortex is essentially a hierarchical associative memory.

    There seems to be biological evidence to support this hypothesis (both in terms of structure and function), and the author has succeeded in creating "person recognition" software since then.

    I am inclined to believe there is truth to this hypothesis.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #17
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    @entropie
    @Catbert
    @Salomé

    I think we can have quite a deep discussion about this.

    Ultimately, vector spaces, including Hilbert spaces are built up from our normal logic and axiomatic set theory. So there is nothing magical going on in that respect.

    The powerfull idea is changing where we map reality to in our formalism. As was quoted by Salomé, there is a hidden layer of mathematics at work in the Quantum formalism.

    The thing that kept popping up in my head when reading the article was the vector space approach to neural networks, and pattern classification in general. The singular value decomposition has proven to be a powerful tool in pattern classification, so it is not surprizing that similar tools for modeling help with human cognition.

    There is a theory floating around, that the neocortex is nothing more than a hierarchical assosiative memmory. If this is true, then the basis of human cognition is just an emmence pattern classification machine...and that pattern classification machine would be very well described by some vector space, if not by a Hilbert space.
    lol


    you should talk more


    seriously.



    (it's a compliment, you rarely see interesting posts anymore)

  8. #18
    violaine
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    ^Yes!

    Most interesting thread of the day.

  9. #19
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    given the neocortex was a hierachical associative memory that still doesnt explain how you come from there to a conscience.

    I like articles like that, just saying its boulevard press cause it gives no concrete example. hearing more about whats technically possible would be intresting.

    It takes time to get me exited
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    For a very entertaining and informative point of view on this subject read Anathem by Neal Stephenson, he takes the idea and runs with it and ends up in a very odd, but thought provoking place.

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