Gender identity difference has higher occurance in individuals with asd

[prplchknz]

I also have wondered independently if Asperger's is becoming the ADHD of the 21st century, in terms of overdiagnosis.

I think so, I mean someone tried to diagnose me as Aspergerist. I can tell you I am not and if i was it would have been figured out long ago. more and more people are being diagnosed with asperger's people my age. maybe they got better at diagnosing but I think it's becoming the whole ADHD of the 90's and 00's everyone and their fish has it.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think so, I mean someone tried to diagnose me as Aspergerist. I can tell you I am not and if i was it would have been figured out long ago. more and more people are being diagnosed with asperger's people my age. maybe they got better at diagnosing but I think it's becoming the whole ADHD of the 90's and 00's everyone and their fish has it.

Wait, I think you're onto something -- My fish never says anything to me, seems to be absorbed in his own little world, and does not respond to ANY of the emotional or social cues I give him! All he wants is his food.

 

[prplchknz]

Wait, I think you're onto something -- My fish never says anything to me, seems to be absorbed in his own little world, and does not respond to ANY of the emotional or social cues I give him! All he wants is his food.

 

[Betty Blue]

I did say I didn't have a lot of confidence in her abilities

I think she took a very superficial view of things, and saw my habitual avoidance of eye contact and poor understanding of social cues to mean something more than the fact that I had been largely socially isolated for the 8 years before she saw me. I think that there is a strong tendency to over diagnose with Asperger's, because the diagnostic criteria are very vague, and very broad. Being socially awkward isn't always, or even most of the time, a sign of an ASD.

So yeah, having slept on it, this study seems a bit... bollocks. I can see though, how many with GID could get a misdiagnosis of Asperger's, especially if they are introverted thinking types, as the frequently attendant depression (perhaps coupled with a naturally reticent personality) could cause a social withdrawal that could be seen as something other than what it is.

Well tbh it seems she was covering bases when being presented with symptoms/behaviour associated with Aspergers.
I'm presuming you did not end up with a diagnosis of asbergers, so no harm done. Always good to be thorough, imagine the cases where the converse is true.
I don't know the details, just going by what i have read so far.
I am sure that there are cases of misdiagnosis but probably not more than other area's.
I know it is common, for example, for people with bi-polar to be diagnosed with depression (when down) or adhd (when manic)... there are also crossovers with certain conditions, i know someone with ADHD with underlying Autism.

IMO there are not as many misdiagnosis's as people assume, it is generally costly for goverments. There may be a higher incidence in the private sector though.

I will agree that social withdrawl and depression can be closely associated with GID because (amoungst other things) of the impact of social pressures and the feelings this may produce in the individual. But i do think that asd is a lot more complicated than this and it would take a good deal of assessment to ascertain.

Also i do not believe the diagnostic criteria to be vague at all, how these things manifest varies greatly but that is why thorough assessments are important if a diagnosis is to be reached. With my daughter we went through several seperate assessments... two at nursery, two at home, two in a neutral environment, plus the opinions of six different professionals who knew her for some time.
The whole process took nearly a year. I'd say it was very thorough.

 

[MiriMiriAru]

Well tbh it seems she was covering bases when being presented with symptoms/behaviour associated with Aspergers.
I'm presuming you did not end up with a diagnosis of asbergers, so no harm done. Always good to be thorough, imagine the cases where the converse is true.
I don't know the details, just going by what i have read so far.
I am sure that there are cases of misdiagnosis but probably not more than other area's.
I know it is common, for example, for people with bi-polar to be diagnosed with depression (when down) or adhd (when manic)... there are also crossovers with certain conditions, i know someone with ADHD with underlying Autism.

IMO there are not as many misdiagnosis's as people assume, it is generally costly for goverments. There may be a higher incidence in the private sector though.

I will agree that social withdrawl and depression can be closely associated with GID because (amoungst other things) of the impact of social pressures and the feelings this may produce in the individual. But i do think that asd is a lot more complicated than this and it would take a good deal of assessment to ascertain.

Also i do not believe the diagnostic criteria to be vague at all, how these things manifest varies greatly but that is why thorough assessments are important if a diagnosis is to be reached. With my daughter we went through several seperate assessments... two at nursery, two at home, two in a neutral environment, plus the opinions of six different professionals who knew her for some time.
The whole process took nearly a year. I'd say it was very thorough.

Well, this was 15 years ago, so they may have tightened up the criteria since then. But she claimed her diagnosis was definitive (despite being anything but thorough), informed my mother about, arranged for me to go to an asperger's support group where I decidedly did not fit in. However, I believed it for years, until a little under a year ago, when I did quite a bit of research into it, and realised she was talking out her arse.

What's frustrating about this (other than the obvious effects of labouring under the erroneous idea that you have a disorder that hampers you ability to socialise with others) is that this provided a wonderfully convenient explanation for my social awkwardness and withdrawal, my constant ostracism, and my lack of desire to get close to anyone, and provided a heavy distraction from my gender dysphoria (which on reflection is a much more likely cause for all the aforementioned issues I had), which I may have acknowledged years ago otherwise.

 

[Totenkindly]

I will agree that social withdrawl and depression can be closely associated with GID because (amoungst other things) of the impact of social pressures and the feelings this may produce in the individual. But i do think that asd is a lot more complicated than this and it would take a good deal of assessment to ascertain.

I can easily see how GID can result in some sort of anxiety and/or depression diagnosis (and ironically, that was how my sessions were billed due to the insurance issues in the US of billing anything to the nefarious 302.6 code), but my faith in any therapist would be highly shaken if they couldn't quickly separate ASD from GID.

Also i do not believe the diagnostic criteria to be vague at all, how these things manifest varies greatly but that is why thorough assessments are important if a diagnosis is to be reached. With my daughter we went through several seperate assessments... two at nursery, two at home, two in a neutral environment, plus the opinions of six different professionals who knew her for some time.
The whole process took nearly a year. I'd say it was very thorough.

I've been entering some discussions on other forums where people are having kneejerk reactions against GID diagnoses in children that lead to the application of hormone blockers. Some of the debaters are just clearly ignorant of the diagnostic criteria and process and are just reacting against the thought of a gender change altogether; others are speculating that the child is making the decision and there is no real screening process, at least based on the kind of responses i see from them; realistically, doctors take this kind of things very very seriously, if not just because they care about the kids but also because of the legal issues involved. (Parents of kids in a situation like this in the States usually have to build a "safe case" -- a collection of documents they can show law enforcement in case some neighbor or parent of a peer decides that the family should be reported for child abuse/negligence.) There's a lot of assessments done, in my understanding, from a variety of doctors. The process is carefully regulated.

What's frustrating about this (other than the obvious effects of labouring under the erroneous idea that you have a disorder that hampers you ability to socialise with others) is that this provided a wonderfully convenient explanation for my social awkwardness and withdrawal, my constant ostracism, and my lack of desire to get close to anyone, and provided a heavy distraction from my gender dysphoria (which on reflection is a much more likely cause for all the aforementioned issues I had), which I may have acknowledged years ago otherwise.

That can definitely be a problem; it's a major issue with any misdiagnosis, honestly, whether we're talking this, cancer, or whatever else; while one ailment is being treated, the true ailment is still proceeding along.

I attended therapy for four years before finally bringing up my GID issues. Basically, I went through every other disturbance in my life that contributed to depression and anxiety, resolved them, and finally reached the awareness that I was still fundamentally derailed in my treatment and the only thing left to confront with my therapist was GID. It stunk I had those other issues to work through first and that they were confuscating the underlying problem.

 

[MiriMiriAru]

That can definitely be a problem; it's a major issue with any misdiagnosis, honestly, whether we're talking this, cancer, or whatever else; while one ailment is being treated, the true ailment is still proceeding along.

I attended therapy for four years before finally bringing up my GID issues. Basically, I went through every other disturbance in my life that contributed to depression and anxiety, resolved them, and finally reached the awareness that I was still fundamentally derailed in my treatment and the only thing left to confront with my therapist was GID. It stunk I had those other issues to work through first and that they were confuscating the underlying problem.

I hate thinking about the past, because it frequently results in thinking about pointless "what if" scenarios, and yet, I have to to see how I got where I am. In my case, I don't really think that I had any other issues. The simplest explanation for most issues (mainly social isolation during my school years at an all-boys school, and drifting listlessness in my adult life) I had in my life is GID. Asperger's is lovely cover for this, since in a way it absolved me of any need to try and engage with anybody, since "I don't know how to", and at the same time provided a target of blame for my loneliness. I does stink, but, at least I'm doing something about it now (for real, my GP gave me an endo referral today, for fear of self-medication ), and not 20 years from now.

 

[Betty Blue]

Well, this was 15 years ago, so they may have tightened up the criteria since then. But she claimed her diagnosis was definitive (despite being anything but thorough), informed my mother about, arranged for me to go to an asperger's support group where I decidedly did not fit in. However, I believed it for years, until a little under a year ago, when I did quite a bit of research into it, and realised she was talking out her arse.

What's frustrating about this (other than the obvious effects of labouring under the erroneous idea that you have a disorder that hampers you ability to socialise with others) is that this provided a wonderfully convenient explanation for my social awkwardness and withdrawal, my constant ostracism, and my lack of desire to get close to anyone, and provided a heavy distraction from my gender dysphoria (which on reflection is a much more likely cause for all the aforementioned issues I had), which I may have acknowledged years ago otherwise.

I understand better after this more in depth explanation. You're right it does sound ridiculous that she thought her word was law. I'm not quite sure how she got away with it to be honest. As far as i know it takes several professionals to make an informed decision pertaining to diagnosis.

I am unsure how much it differs in the assessment of an adult, or indeed in other countries.
From my own point of view your style of writing would not indicate asbergers, but i would not judge something so serious on a sprinkle of internet posts. I did note you used some turns of phrase, while these can be learnt they do not come naturally to anyone on the autistic spectrum as far as i know.

I can pretty safely say that here (England) there would be more likelyhood of underdiagnosis (recently) because of the costs involved for the government departments...esp health and education and the financial strain this is putting on the system.

For example of the additional costs issue; I talked with a well informed teacher today who aired his concerns to me regarding the new statementing changes coming into effect this year to reduce costs...which basically means lots of children who are getting extra help in school will have their extra help cut.
Statements (incase you are not familiar with them) are legally binding documents that set out what kind of extra help (and how much) children with special needs and special educational needs get in school.

I'm rambling a bit here, my appologies

Anyway i'm sorry that you had a crappy egotistical therapist who thought her word was law. Some people...grrrr. Oh and i'm very happy to hear you are getting somewhere now. It's always a battle huh.

 

[MiriMiriAru]

I understand better after this more in depth explanation. You're right it does sound ridiculous that she thought her word was law. I'm not quite sure how she got away with it to be honest. As far as i know it takes several professionals to make an informed decision pertaining to diagnosis.

I am unsure how much it differs in the assessment of an adult, or indeed in other countries.
From my own point of view your style of writing would not indicate asbergers, but i would not judge something so serious on a sprinkle of internet posts. I did note you used some turns of phrase, while these can be learnt they do not come naturally to anyone on the autistic spectrum as far as i know.

I can pretty safely say that here (England) there would be more likelyhood of underdiagnosis (recently) because of the costs involved for the government departments...esp health and education and the financial strain this is putting on the system.

For example of the additional costs issue; I talked with a well informed teacher today who aired his concerns to me regarding the new statementing changes coming into effect this year to reduce costs...which basically means lots of children who are getting extra help in school will have their extra help cut.
Statements (incase you are not familiar with them) are legally binding documents that set out what kind of extra help (and how much) children with special needs and special educational needs get in school.

I'm rambling a bit here, my appologies

Anyway i'm sorry that you had a crappy egotistical therapist who thought her word was law. Some people...grrrr. Oh and i'm very happy to hear you are getting somewhere now. It's always a battle huh.

It was the language thing, the way that I'm quite eloquent in both speech and writing (and modest too, apparently ), and my ability to understand and use humour, particularly sarcasm, that told me there was something wrong with the diagnosis. I actually saw a psychiatrist a few years later, to try and get a better diagnosis, and he decided that I have mild (again? ) schizotypal personality disorder (which fits even worse), apparently on the basis of me showing little to none of the diagnostic criteria. His solution to this was to prescribe Xyprexa (which he just gave me, I didn't even have to buy it), which resulted in the one of the worst months of my adult life. I just could not think about anything for more than 30 seconds. Suffice to say, these episodes haven't given me a great deal of trust in the mental health profession.

I think the way that it's done in England sounds better. When diagnosing these kinds of things, caution, and several opinions seem prudent. In Australia psychiatrists just tend to behave like they know everything and that everything can be fixed with magic pills.

Ironically, all these experiences came from my mother's concern about my apparent depression, which ended up taking me further away form, rather than closer to, the cause. But as you mentioned, I'm finally getting somewhere. As long as I keep moving forward, things look bright.

 

[Totenkindly]

I does stink, but, at least I'm doing something about it now (for real, my GP gave me an endo referral today, for fear of self-medication ), and not 20 years from now.

Yeah, I saw that elsewhere. Gratz.

 

[sleepy]

I read the paper. Why do they check for sexual arousal? I thought the latest research had come to an understanding that sexuality and identity are separated area of the brain, and only connected as much as the rest is connected. Also, are these researchers pedophiles? It seems an odd test. Would be interesting to have arousal probes on the testers as well and include in the results. And GID term is on the way out, as it's only transsexuality that is labeled as a disorder, and should not be mixed with autism, that is a disorder. Even transsexuality is on it's way out as mental disorder. As it's a sexual thing. It's slurr. Like 'men think with their dick'... could be entertaining I presume, but doesn't belong in attempted serious research, even in what is presented as such.