User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 18 of 18

  1. #11
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Any ideas on how you'd go about raising a child to be intuitive?

    Do you think the mbti distribution is optimal as it is or not?
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  2. #12
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InTheFlesh View Post
    I tend to go the existentialist route here and claim that it's a result of how people are raised/what their childhood is like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I don't think that's it.
    We aren't blank slates, and neither are we pre-written. Something in da middle!

  3. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Interesting stuff. I'm afraid I'm with the heretics on this one. To be very brief, I don't understand how group selection wouldn't happen.
    Some problems with the usual hasty generalisations by the authors.

    Once, there is always more than one group. One groups meat is another groups poison.
    Twice, the skills and predispositions which can be toxic in a group setting can be extremely effective on an individual level. (See The Lonely Crowd, 1955).
    Thrice, mutual exclusive traits on an individual level can be tolerated in the balance due to trade-off and distance.
    Fourths, People are rarely extremophiles in the group, however, it is a small jump from moderate to extremophile potentially across a single generation. Evolution of genetics and society implies both the potential for small and gargantuan step outs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Any ideas on how you'd go about raising a child to be intuitive?

    Do you think the mbti distribution is optimal as it is or not?
    MBTI/Jungian distribution is flawed in that it exudes a bimodal model, when the trends tend to be across a single mode.

    The answer to the above 'how' would be to attempt certain interventions and observe if 'intuitive behaviour' however you might classify it emerges. If this fails attempt a different approach. Rinse and repeat with additional interventions until the desired level is reached.

  4. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    However, their thesis makes perfect sense IMHO.
    It makes sense in that very abstract and isolated example, I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Marmie, I don't think this is what is being argued.
    True. Mutually beneficial relationships and teamwork do not fit the definition of altruism being referred to here.

    Altruistic behaviour here, is detrimental to the organism performing it, and beneficial to at least one other organism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    As a complete layman, group selection (multilevel selection) totally makes intuitive sense to me. I still don't really get why it's controversial.
    Because it only makes intuitive sense. Armchair psychology/biology, I believe it is called, where it seems nice and fitting in one's mind, but has nothing else to back it up.

    The best evidence they can gather, which is admittedly very weak, is the mathematics the OP article speaks of. Mathematics that needs to predict where they will find altruism, and where they won't. Both sides make intuitive sense, kinship and group selection, but the evidence behind both is very much lacking, more so with group than kin. A random intuitive counter example to group, is that whenever altruistic genes comes to be, they die off quickly, as all organisms which possess them are more likely to die, sacrificing themselves for another without the altruistic genes, which does not apply to kinship selection as strongly, because of a greater similarity in genes (this, like all intuitive examples, has no evidence and involves an overly simplified view of genetics and behaviour).

    It's evolution, so very difficult to prove what happened in the past with any detail whatsoever. However they'll be able to show similar effects now, which can be extrapolated backwards to make better educated guesses about what happened in the distant past. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.

  5. #15
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    MBTI/Jungian distribution is flawed in that it exudes a bimodal model, when the trends tend to be across a single mode.
    I don't think it really does, take ISFP, they have Fi which is almost balanced out by Se, then they have Ni, which is almost balanced out by Te, leaving them overall somewhere in the middle between I and E:

    Fi--X---------------------------Fe
    Si-----------------------X------Se
    Ni-----------X------------------Ne
    Ti-----------------X------------Te

    Overall:
    I--------------X-----------------E
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I don't think it really does, take ISFP, they have Fi which is almost balanced out by Se, then they have Ni, which is almost balanced out by Te, leaving them overall somewhere in the middle between I and E:

    Fi--X---------------------------Fe
    Si-----------------------X------Se
    Ni-----------X------------------Ne
    Ti-----------------X------------Te

    Overall:
    I--------------X-----------------E
    If you take multiple modes you will get a log normal, not a bimodal modal of I vs E.

  7. #17
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Enneagram
    CFV
    Posts
    276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I don't think that's it.
    What do you think in opposition to that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    We aren't blank slates, and neither are we pre-written. Something in da middle!
    What exactly is in the middle? Can I have an example so I can have a better understanding of what you're getting at?

  8. #18
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    If you take multiple modes you will get a log normal, not a bimodal modal of I vs E.
    I'm not good with stats but isn't that what we should expect (normal distribution for I-E).

    When you test for I or E you will be picking up some traits from Fi and some traits from Se, so for most people you'll wind up somewhere in the middle, appearing ambiverted. Only those rare people that ONLY use their first function, or don't use their secondary at all will appear especially extraverted or introverted.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

Similar Threads

  1. Why's it NT and NF as opposed to NP and NJ?
    By StonedPhilosopher in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-13-2017, 11:32 AM
  2. Was Joan of Arc really an ENFP as opposed to INFP?
    By Elfboy in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 04-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  3. [JCF] Fe(and maybe Te?) Question: Groups and your relationship to them
    By sculpting in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-10-2012, 06:37 PM
  4. Why I think I'm XXXX as opposed to ENFP
    By amerellis in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-26-2011, 05:46 PM
  5. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-11-2007, 03:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO