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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'm guessing they made it painless because of the prohibition on "cruel and unusual" punishment. Regardless of the pain-free methodology, I'm not in favor of the death penalty for several reasons. Some of them are religious and thus have no place in the public sphere, but if any innocent person is ever executed then the penalty is worth discarding, IMO. That's a risk I don't believe we should take. An innocent person can always be released from prison but you can't very well bring them back from beyond the grave.

  2. #12
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Could we use that to execute people, too?

    Edit: That's not to say I'm in favor of executing people. I honestly have mixed feelings about it, but if it is done and our intent is to be humane about it, could we use Sodium pentobarbital on the humans we execute?
    I guess we could kill them with a massive dose of this. It might just result in a coma unless you really used a lot of it. I'm not sure why they add the additional two steps besides the Pentothal. Perhaps just to make sure that they are not simply putting a person into a deep sleep.

    To Ivy - yes, my guess is that the lethal injection was adopted to try and comply with the updated "cruel and unusual punishment" stance, but my question is whether it IS in fact still "cruel", when one looks at both the accidental errors I mentioned in the OP, and also the hypothetical purposeful "errors".

    A doctor killed his wife after a paralysis chemical had been administered. She still had all feeling and consciousness, but simply couldn't move or breathe. IIRC, he slowly fed her, feet first, into a wood chipper this way. Of course that was a murder, vs. a state sanctioned execution.

    Sometimes hospital personnel who have to deal with patients that are refusing treatment ( a drunk brought in with an injury or whatever ) will use a little of this on the worst cases. They will give them just a little taste of what complete paralysis feels like, as though to say "Quit fucking around" and it does tend to get one's attention.

  3. #13
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    Why not this?

  4. #14
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuranes View Post
    I guess we could kill them with a massive dose of this. It might just result in a coma unless you really used a lot of it. I'm not sure why they add the additional two steps besides the Pentothal. Perhaps just to make sure that they are not simply putting a person into a deep sleep.

    To Ivy - yes, my guess is that the lethal injection was adopted to try and comply with the updated cruel and unusual punishment stance, but my question is whether it IS in fact "cruel", when one looks at the accidental errors, and the on-purpose ( hypothetical ) "errors".

    A doctor killed his wife after a paralysis chemical had been administered. She still had all feeling and consciousness, but simply couldn't move or breathe. IIRC, he slowly fed her, feet first, into a wood chipper this way. Of course that was a murder, vs. a state sanctioned execution.

    Sometimes hospital personnel who have to deal with patients that are refusing treatment ( a drunk brought in with an injury or whatever ) will use a little of this on the worst cases. They will give them just a little taste of what complete paralysis feels like, as though to say "Quit fucking around" and it does tend to get one's attention.
    Damn. Maybe it's not so "humane" after all. That's pretty horrifying about the murder.

  5. #15
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Damn. Maybe it's not so "humane" after all. That's pretty horrifying about the murder.
    Yeah. Just imagine her final thoughts, if you could call them "thoughts".

    I suffer from apnea, which means my snores sometimes cut off my breathing. I have had some horrific mini-nightmares before, that I awake from with a gasp or scream, and then realize that it was probably my brain trying to warn me that "we" had stopped breathing. I hate to think of how that imagery could get worse and worse as the danger signal went unrecognized. Yet many people who have briefly "died" talk about a tunnel of light etc. I would sure hope for the latter. The people who really died and never returned to tell the tale, might have a different story to tell. One would hope that the brain would compensate for situations where there is no "move" that you can make in response. But if that were true, then pain would only last for a little while, just enough to tell us to fix something. But it doesn't.
    Last edited by kuranes; 05-08-2007 at 03:55 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member hereandnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    but if any innocent person is ever executed then the penalty is worth discarding, IMO. That's a risk I don't believe we should take. An innocent person can always be released from prison but you can't very well bring them back from beyond the grave.

    This is a valid point because it does occur. In fact, in all manner of human interaction, innocent people are often hurt. Despite this, there are reasons for excutions IMO. A panel should be chosen to review each case with no one coming from LE or the legal community except in advisory capacity.
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  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Damn. Maybe it's not so "humane" after all. That's pretty horrifying about the murder.
    To be honest, I wanted to slap you, Kuranes -- I'm still feeling nauseated and have to actively block it out of my mind, to keep from imagining how she felt.

    Did the guy get the death penalty?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    Did the guy get the death penalty?
    I don't remember. But I don't think he got off. IIRC his own son testified against him.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    I believe in the reliability of DNA evidence that is so often used to link criminals to murder that wasn't available 20 years ago. I believe in most states that qualifying for the death penalty requires that you committed a murder with "special circumstances" (torture/rape etc.). The fact that they get to live for many years after their crimes due to appeals (except in TX) is the real atrocity IMO. I think that death by injection probably does get screwed-up often(and perhaps intentionally). I can't say my heart is bleeding over that fact. I have heard worse stories about electric chair and hanging executions that go wrong. I think some of them are lucky to get lethal injection at all. *end of rant*
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  10. #20
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    To be honest, I wanted to slap you, Kuranes -- I'm still feeling nauseated and have to actively block it out of my mind, to keep from imagining how she felt.

    Did the guy get the death penalty?
    Wow, what a weird reaction -- I didn't identify with the woman at all really -- instead my brain jumped right to "How the hell could he let her bother him that much?" Or something like that.

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