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  1. #11
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    By which method should we test the scientific method?

    I didn't understand the article... I stopped at the part about the drugs demonstrating less effect in the later tests. If they are less effective, then they are less effective, and lost some of their power as drugs, have they not?

    Unless the method is venturing outside the realm of facts and on to personal preferences/opinions, there shouldn't be much of a problem. If it is about facts, something worthwhile will eventually be found by observation and experimentations.

  2. #12
    Senor Membrane
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    I'm not really sure what the scientific method is exactly. Is the aim of the method to get to the truth? If it is, it should be redefined. I don't see any too big problems with it as long as we keep in mind that the truths are statistical and that the method works only inside the frame of reference it is meant for. What I see as a problem is that average people like myself have no idea what the definition of truth in science is. It seems that whenever they get enough creditability for a theory, they can sell it to the public too easily.

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    method ? That word feels strange, does it mean something naughty ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Not only that, formal logic, e.g. mathematics, doesn't seem to rely on empiricism at all.
    Except that it does. The choices by which a formal system is constructed/tested are based on intuition and empiricism (I guess as test of perceived usefulness). Otherwise you get an infinite number of formal systems - pretty useless if you are a mathematician.

    Oh and empiricism only relies on formal logic in a limited sense. Actually, in many respects formal logic is obsolete these days due to concepts such as complexity.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    method ? That word feels strange, does it mean something naughty ?
    It would be more correct to say methods, rather than method singular.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    Except that it does. The choices by which a formal system is constructed/tested are based on intuition and empiricism (I guess as test of perceived usefulness). Otherwise you get an infinite number of formal systems - pretty useless if you are a mathematician.

    Oh and empiricism only relies on formal logic in a limited sense. Actually, in many respects formal logic is obsolete these days due to concepts such as complexity.
    Well, why don't you explain how some simple formal logic, like 2 + 2 = 4, is based on empiricism?

    Also, perhaps explain how formal logic has become obsolete by complexity? If you mean regular complexity instead of say, mathematical complexity, then all truth finding methods suffer greatly because of it.

    Empiricism cannot fully function without formal logic. Try processing data without mathematics, for example.

    If it turns out randomness is inherent, then empiricism will truly have a boon over rationalism and formal logic. Otherwise, formal logic is the only truth finding method that preserves truth as it functions (meaning the error margin does not increase with each step).

  6. #16
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    The discovery of addition was absolutely driven by empiricism.

  7. #17
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    Care to back that up?

    I can back up formal logic not being based on, nor driven by empiricism simply by referring to how a logic puzzle is solved, an equation balanced or an incompleteness theorem discovered. Not through observation nor induction, but through deduction.

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    It would be more correct to say methods, rather than method singular.
    Ouh you actually made something naughty of it, didnt think of that . Didnt know you intps had it in you
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I've always thought people have been too confident in scientific studies of complex systems. I know that scientists do their best to isolate a single variable, but that's difficult to do with relatively simple systems (like some physics experiments). When you are conducting experiments on complex systems, like the human body, it is impossible.

    I'm not saying that we need to toss science aside, but we need to reevaluate how much confidence give scientific studies.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #20
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    I found this rebuttal to be insightful.

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...o_mysterio.php
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