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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default A third type of dimensional continuum?

    Just like my new "Super Short" version of my essays on type and temperament, I recently thought of a new way to state an idea I had about the dimensionality of the universe. (Original version here: BDMNQR Essays: Math & Science).

    Similarly now, I will use a "build it up from scratch" method of explaining. In order to explain this new continuum, we will also have to come up with a fundamental definition of space and time, the other two continuums of the unoverse.
    -----------

    If we imagine loops of string, in different states. Say color.
    I can have only one color , but I imagine other "realities" where the circle appears other colors. These different circles are displaced in a medium that appears imaginary, because in our perception, only one "reality" can be actualized at a time.



    So we need a way to actualize the other states of the circle.
    One way is to essentially create copies of the circle with each one being one of the other colors. We can then place them in a "side by side" displacement, and all are then actualized at once.

    We have now created a new dimensional medium, called SPACE.

    In this medium, we can freely, randomly access each circle, measure their location relative to each other, building a scale called distance.
    -----------------

    How can we actualize the different states of the same object without creating copies of it?
    We can have it change to all the different colors, the displacement being sequential, "one after the other", involving causation. We raise the frequency, causing one color to turn into the next.

    This is yet another dimensional medium, called TIME.

    One drawback, is that we do not have the total freedom to randomly access these states. Unless the cycle is looped, if you miss one, there is no way to get back to it. Actualization is now avery brief thing.
    --------------------

    So we see we have arrived at the same "different states" of an object, using three different means.

    One, we hypothesized these alternate states, as simple parallel realities, and basically imagined a medium connecting them.
    What we lacked, was a way to actualize them.

    Two, we placed these alternate realities in a medium where they could be actualized all at once, and randomly acessed.

    Three, we had a medium where the original object itself could actualize all of these different states one after the other.


    Of course, our universe is a combination of these last two. "Events" are actualized changes of states of matter and energy marking location in both the randomly accessed medium (which is actually fanned out into three dimensions of freedom), as well as the sequential medium.
    All together, this is called "four dimensional spacetime".

    The premise is that the first medium, which I call "chance", is the primary "Father"-like realm (i.e. "Patrix"), and that space and time are simply manifestations of it, in which reality is actualized.

    This was paralled with the early Church's understanding of God as being the Father, and the Son and Spirit as springing forth as the accessible representatives of a divine nature that otherwise cannot be contained in the physical spacetime universe. (Where the later Church reconfigured this into three separate "equals" sitting side by side).

    Another premise is that this "chance" dimension might be able to figure in theoretical equations calling for various dimensions that are currently assumed to be space or time.

    Like the six tiny (10^35m) "extra" dimensions of string theory. Some variations add anywhere from one to sixteen additional ones. All of these are generally assumed to be spatial. (Occasionally, a suggestion of one of them being temporal surfaces).

    But perhaps they are chance. Wouldn't this fit in with the "uncertainty principle" that string theory is in part based on? (that a particle may or may not appear at a given location)

    Every alternate state of every string in the universe would generate a new dimension of "chance".
    So perhaps in these field equations calling for more dimensions, each one would somehow involve that number (6, 16, etc) of probabilies that could become real.
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  2. #2
    A window to the soul
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    Your ideas are interesting. Why no "chance" continuum? Impossible to prove. Time and space, yes. I don't think this fits with the uncertainty principle because it doesn't account for "parallel states" or a parallel existence of the same particle. "Unchosen", was simply never actualized and that's the reality. So no, I don't think there is a continuum in which parallel timelines exists where you're wearing a blue shirt, a red shirt, a yellow shirt all at the same time. Only one is "actualized" in time and space. Who cares about the rest? Respectfully, the only thing that makes sense with regards to your thoughts on a "chance" continuum are your thoughts on God and the trinity. Why? God is "God", creator of the universe (not by chance), but by perfect design. Only something all powerful and brilliant could have made everything come together so perfectly. Realizing that creation around me earns my respect and belief in a high power. God's perfect design. We follow physical laws per that design. He makes his own rules and frankly I'm sure he does whatever the heck he wants; which may also include having a parallel existence in parallel universes: father, son, spirit... omnipresence, sure, why not. I accept that.

  3. #3
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Scientists might care if it can figure in their equations (which is what determines the total number of dimensions they belive exist).

    Like when they speculate on objects such as tachyons (which move faster than light, and can never be slowed down), heading out in one direction, and then attempting to return, but from a different inertial frame of reference would theoretically have it return before it left. Then, I have read about some theory of a rotating mass of matter spread over the universe, that would somehow bring you back in time if you travelled around it or something.

    So in order to not violate causality, it would also have to be travelling to one of those parallel realities, where it would be at the particular "earlier" point of time in that point of space.

    Since the theoretical physics books do mention this stuff, then it would be good to consider "chance" as a "vector space" (another descriptive term I did not think of in the OP).

    And I also think of it in terms of God's relation to us. He could show us parallel realities in revealing why He may have done things that He did (which people often cannot understand), of if we had gotten everything we want, etc.
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  4. #4
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Yeah. I'm still waiting for any sort of empirical data.
    And no, vaguely quoting crazy folk tales that were never connected to any sort of empirical data what so ever does no, magically make it into something conclusive.
    It's called wishful thinking, and denotes of a ridiculous amount of confirmation bias.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #5
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    I seem to vaguely remember Einstein theorizing about something similar just before he died. He was never satisfied with his findings, so it remains a mystery and the master key to the universe is still waiting to be discovered. Are you familiar with Einstein's latest work? Do you think it supports a third continuum?

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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    From what I gather; Einstein, in his latter days, seemed to be trying to put together a theory of everything, which current string theorists are trying to finish. the key is unifying gravity with the other forces. And it seems higher dimensions were the key to that.

    "Vector space" wasn't an alternative term for "chance" if that's what you think, it was the technical term for what I called "dimensional continuum". Space and time are examples of vector spaces.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Yeah. I'm still waiting for any sort of empirical data.
    And no, vaguely quoting crazy folk tales that were never connected to any sort of empirical data what so ever does no, magically make it into something conclusive.
    It's called wishful thinking, and denotes of a ridiculous amount of confirmation bias.
    Sometimes it has to start with that (after all, these ideas are drafted in their field equations before any testing can be done). The empirical testing for dimensions is particle colliders, and it's just a matter of being able to build bigger ones that can generate the energy required to detect the higher dimensions.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    From what I gather; Einstein, in his latter days, seemed to be trying to put together a theory of everything, which current string theorists are trying to finish. the key is unifying gravity with th eother forces. And it seems higher dimensions were the key to that.
    What about parallel universes and time travel?

    I found this article,
    Albert Einstein and the Fabric of Time

    Quote from the article:
    Unfortunately it wasn't until Einstein died that scientists began to consider the a Many Worlds Theory in science. It's safe to say that in Einstein's time we were still getting used to the idea of the Big Bang, adjusting to the ever more visible vast sea of other galaxies, and the possibility of alien life on other planets. The universe and reality were still primarily considered purely solid and material based. Quantum theory, which eventually led to the theory of many worlds, had not yet fully withstood the test of time. Einstein even rejected its implications, saying "God does not play dice" with the world, even as he himself established that there is more to the universe than a single evolving moment of now.

  8. #8
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    There are as many dimensions as we can think of, but there is still only one universe. Dimensions are like MBTI. A categorical naming system.

    There are many buttons on my keyboard. I can observe the buttons. I can touch them, I can press them, I can even hold them. But there is a limit to the amount of dimensions I can interact with it. That limit is the amount of dimensions it has. Pondering on further dimensions seems to be futile to me.

    Einstein was probably never satisfied with his findings because he disliked the limits of his perception. We can interact up to the dimension of time to an extent, we are incapable of perceiving beyond that dimension.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #9
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    What about parallel universes and time travel?

    I found this article,
    Albert Einstein and the Fabric of Time
    What they're calling "timelessness" or time laid out as a fourth dimension of space is what I'm calling chance. It's a swath of an entire set of possible states (i.e. configurations of matter and energy).
    What they're imagining is simply a simultaneous [re-]actualization of the particular actualized sequence we have experienced. So then, you could look at all of time for our three dimensional universe as a four dimensional "film strip" so to speak.

    But even that is just one "slice" out of many other non-actualized possibilities.
    In such a model, what we call time is created purely out of space. Special directions in space travel through each static three dimensional space, therein producing a new realm of space beyond three dimensions, which we call time.
    This is basically treating space as the "Father-like" continuum, which seems to be the common assumption. But space seems to be better defined in terms of simultaneous actualization of different states of matter/energy. So you could in fact lay it all out as space, (and then "run" it as a film) but in our experience where there is only one dimension of actualization (a timelike "Lineland"), it cannot properly be called space. (This unlike the classic concept of higher spatial dimensions, where the higher dimensions are simultaneously actualized; we just can't move in them).
    So it is basically a hypothetical kind of space (just like time is a sequential kind of space), that we can call "chance".

    Here's a video that builds up a 10 dimensional space from scratch. Time is the fourth, of course. Dimensions 5 and 6 would be the realm I am calling "chance". Then, in a Part 2 video, he tries to expand upon that, but it seems to me, 7-10 are just other ways of expressing "chance".

    [youtube="JkxieS-6WuA"]Imagining the Tenth Dimension[/youtube]
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  10. #10
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Here's a scenario where this "chance" theory could resolve religion-science conflicts. (Witness all the threads on this, like right now).
    This might sound a bit way out, but who knows...

    Eden might have been one of these parallel realities, in which two people, Adam and Eve were created, in a universe created in six days.
    It is known that the location of this "garden", which is described in terms of a literal eartly place, is uncertain, as the familiar Euphrates River is mentioned, but the other three (with which it branches off from a common source) are unknown, especially with one encompassing the land of Ethiopia.

    So the entire topography was different (though diehard "flood geologists" will try to argue that was changed by the Flood. More on this next).

    When they fall, God then banishes them, not to another spacelike location, but by placing them in an alternate timeline, where the universe is based on cycles of cataclysmic creation and destruction, and life relies on a difficult and often violent cycle of toil and death. The pair now end up part of a race of creatures who had evolved with the rest of life; a seeming godless process of survival, marking the separation from God.
    (Hence, their son, Cain was able to find a female partner. They would now and thereafter fit right in with the rest of the universe, as Cain would go on and commit the first "murder").

    Since the scriptural record is covering the actualized path of the new humans, it all reads as a single timeline. (And of course, God is not going to reveal the metaphysical details, as they are not the point of the story).

    It seems the world continued to tunnel into different states, with the laws of nature changing and covering up their tracks. You had a global flood that seems physically impossible by today's known laws. (Seemed to still be based on a totally different cosmology, where the earth lied between two bodies of water in a vertical stack of sorts). Men lived for centuries.

    At some point, we enter this current "Standard Model" based realm.

    I used to propose as an explanation something I read in Michio Kaku's book, regarding how the 6D orbifolds of string theory (also known as "Calabi-Yau spaces") shape the Standard Model we are familiar with, and could actually tunnel to a totally different state if this weren't the true lowest energy state (like a bedsheet wanting to curl up from the corners).
    The premise I had previously mentioned was that these six (or more) tiny dimensions might not necessarily be spatial, as is assumed; but rather "chance" (even though this sounds totally random, a God could still be in control of it). Hence, this tunneling might have been generating new timelines where natural laws and the state of man are different.

    Perhaps life as it would have been without the Fall is one of the counterfactuals we will gain access to, once we die and leave this space/timeline?
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