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  1. #1
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    Default Fermi lab: a new clue to explain human existence

    Physicists at the Fermi lab have gotten closer to explaining the "matter dominance" in our universe - From Fermilab, a New Clue to Explain Human Existence? - NYTimes.com

    here is a link to slides from their talk:
    http://www-d0.fnal.gov/Run2Physics/W...b14May2010.pdf

    the article says that the data is available online but I couldn't find it yet, and the paper has just been submitted to physical review so there is no data to quote from that.

    So for anyone that is interested in debating all things related to the scientific or philosophical implications of this discovery please feel free to do so. Depending on interest I'll update the thread from time to time as I find related information about this topic.

    also for anyone that is interested here is the link to most things D0 at the Fermi lab - The DZero Experiment

  2. #2
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    Difficult for me to bring up any implications, as my knowledge of physics is elementary. Does this discovery mean anything in terms of apparent practical application, or is it solely another answer to the never ending series of How?s and Why?s?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Difficult for me to bring up any implications, as my knowledge of physics is elementary. Does this discovery mean anything in terms of apparent practical application, or is it solely another answer to the never ending series of How?s and Why?s?
    The purpose of the D0 experiment is to understand fundamentally how the universe was constructed. So, I guess it depends on how you define practical... You probably won't be getting any new consumer products or medical treatments from the results of this experiment any time soon, but in the future the possible implications are far reaching. From a scientific standpoint it brings into question some of the things we currently believe about the standard model among other things - so yes in that sense there are some real world implications further down the line if something truly comes of these discoveries as we would have to modify some theories and hence the conclusions that we may have drawn from those theories depending on how wide reaching the implications are.

    As far as the philosophical implications go, I really couldn't say. Philosophy is not my cup of tea, but I do find it interesting to read the philosophical opinions of others on matters like these.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Difficult for me to bring up any implications, as my knowledge of physics is elementary. Does this discovery mean anything in terms of apparent practical application, or is it solely another answer to the never ending series of How?s and Why?s?
    Not much in terms of practical application, as far as I can tell. Asymmetries like matter over anti-matter and subtle CP violations are exciting because they're an arena for new physics to emerge, and thus can be reapplied to existing concepts for further understanding. A problem [if it can be called that] with physics is that our minds can theorize greater than our technology can test and take advantage of. It's been decades since fusion was discovered and understood, but it still can't be replicated or harnessed.

    I'm unfamiliar with current philosophical understandings of the universe to really comment on how this discovery would affect that, although it hopefully avoids explanation via the dreaded anthropic principle.

    I actually read an interesting editorial from a physicist that was essentially a call to end the search for unified theories. As disheartening to my Ti-mind as it was to read, he made strong points: our universe exists as it does because anomalies, accidents, and improbabilities were allowed to occur. Article is here: The imperfect universe: Goodbye, theory of everything - opinion - 10 May 2010 - New Scientist

    A quote I liked:

    Life itself is a product of imperfections, from the spatial asymmetry of amino acids to mutations during reproduction. Asymmetries forged the long, complex and erratic path from particles to atoms to cells, from simple prokaryotic cells without nuclei to more sophisticated eukaryotic cells, and then from unicellular to multicellular organisms.



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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post

    I actually read an interesting editorial from a physicist that was essentially a call to end the search for unified theories. As disheartening to my Ti-mind as it was to read, he made strong points: our universe exists as it does because anomalies, accidents, and improbabilities were allowed to occur. Article is here: The imperfect universe: Goodbye, theory of everything - opinion - 10 May 2010 - New Scientist

    The existence of perceived anomalies, accidents and improbabilities (What is an improbability anyway, and why would its occurrence be of any importance?) does not imply that there doesn't exist an underlying principle which governs seemingly unrelated things; rather, their existence historically suggests a lack of depth in our understanding. I don't pretend to even begin to understand the nature of something truly "random," and don't suggest that such a thing is impossible, but because the acceptance of "random" defies one of the core drives of man, "curiosity," I choose to march forward and pretend that "random" doesn't exist.
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    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    The existence of perceived anomalies, accidents and improbabilities (What is an improbability anyway, and why would its occurrence be of any importance?) does not imply that there doesn't exist an underlying principle which governs seemingly unrelated things; rather, their existence historically suggests a lack of depth in our understanding. I don't pretend to even begin to understand the nature of something truly "random," and don't suggest that such a thing is impossible, but because the acceptance of "random" defies one of the core drives of man, "curiosity," I choose to march forward and pretend that "random" doesn't exist.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to agree with you and "the universe makes sense" is probably most my fundamental assumption. But, I understand his perspective.



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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to agree with you and "the universe makes sense" is probably most my fundamental assumption.
    And for this assumption we owe religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And for this assumption we owe religion.
    You are mistaken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    You are mistaken.
    I wont let it get into more of a religious debate, but maybe humans just want to understand the world. Religion happened first and then science exploded in the last quarter of our species existence.

    Some people use religion as a shortcut and a blinder to our scientific understanding. That's why I, and a lot of people, don't like religion.
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
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    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

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    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Probably incorrect, but it's an interesting thought that all the matter and energy in the universe is 1% of the original mixture.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

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