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  1. #51
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    I heard about the ball lightning from my grandmother. When she was six the ball lightning had come to her mother's house. It came in from an open door, moved around the house, and left through the open door.

    I believed her. She was not into stories. It is interesting that at the same time there existed a discussion about the phenomenon in the papers. Highly respected scientists came up to the podium to say there is no such thing, it is all unscientific nonsense.

    I did not know my father could water divine. My mother told me about it. She said she could not, but if my father touched her when she tried, then she could.

    Which of course means that (if there is something to it) the body acts as a catalyst more than the instrument of divination.

    My mother was not a teller of stories either.

    I see water divining is a genuine experience for the people who succeed in the art. It may still be only an art of course. Or then not.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    It could be that it's a physical principle we don't know yet that moves the stick, but it seems more plausible to me that it's the physical/psychological (lol, psy-phy) principle we already know, since that explains it and also explains why controlled tests never have worked. (Watch the video.)
    Indeed. If we were to actually sit down and try to explain a possible natural phenomenon, it would be some force completely unknown to humankind at this point. ...which is extremely unlikely given the current knowledge of physics. Can anyone explain how an underground 'stream' affects a stick in your hands but the Atlantic ocean doesn't rip NYC's skyline into the drink? ...oh gee, of course not. There is nothing about a polar molecule of H2O that can act on other elements to that degree over that distance. Brush up on your chemistry for Thor's sake.

    So to those in this thread who are hiding behind fallacies and 'open minds', please recognize that an open mind isn't very useful if all manner of nonsense dribbles in and out of it. Find a plausibility filter and learn how to use it.

    Next topic of discussion: the healing power of crystals and fridge magnets. Stay tuned for unsupportable, anecdotal evidence from people who just 'know' it works.

  3. #53
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    From what I've heard from others (and Oberon could correct or support me here), the movement of the dowsing object is far too vigorous to be unknowingly obtained. It's actually too strong to oppose. Do you really think you couldn't oppose "idiomotor" reactions? Personally, I don't think it at all likely that so many people could fool themselves into thinking that the stick is moving when it's actually them moving it. Martoon's story, for instance. He had no idea that there was any possibility of the dowsing sticks not working. He had no idea that it wasn't a scientifically-verified practice. He wasn't given some big spiel about why it would work. He was just given the stick and told how to use it.

    Personally, I think people hide a hell of a lot behind pseudo-psychological smokescreens. Can't explain it? It must be something weird the brain is doing. There's plenty of room under that carpet.
    No, if you wanted to, you could oppose ideomotor reactions. If however you're already holding a flexed object and it suddenly starts moving, it's hard to resist if you a) don't believe you'll be able to resist it and b) don't do it the second it starts moving, as you'll have both the flex of the stick and the gravity to fight. But then again it could also be an extreme pull from the water on the stick.

    Martoons story could be confirmation bias or a rather obviously placed pipe (if any signs above ground told of it's placement at point A and B and one assumed that it was straight. Or he could have been lucky. Or it really worked. The point is that all I've ever heard is anecdotes in it's favour, while all objective tests have failed. Anecdotes also clearly tell that horoscopes work, angels walk amongst us, aliens love shoving things up people's rectums, healing cures cancer etc, but it's never been proven.

    Therefore I personally think it's a psychological thing that happens with dowsing, but I'll never know unless I one day see a controlled experiment that proves it works. And I think that's an ok attitude to have towards things that are claimed to work, but which can't be statistically shown to work, like homeopathy, echinaea, psychics etc.
    Would I try a dowser if I needed to drill a hole and really couldn't find water on my own? Yes, probably, because I'm curious. Would I have any hopes of it working? Not really, but I'd love it if it did.

    Edit: Ok, dist... sundowning said it better.

  4. #54

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    I used to do this when I was a kid:

    Stand in a doorway, and push your arms out away from your body, against the frame. Hold it for a minute, then relax your arms.

    Congrats - you just dowsed the walls of your house.*

    *When looking to buy real estate, check the classifieds instead.

  5. #55
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Would I try a dowser if I needed to drill a hole and really couldn't find water on my own? Yes, probably, because I'm curious. Would I have any hopes of it working? Not really, but I'd love it if it did.
    Would you try it yourself?

  6. #56
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowning View Post
    I used to do this when I was a kid:

    Stand in a doorway, and push your arms out away from your body, against the frame. Hold it for a minute, then relax your arms.

    Congrats - you just dowsed the walls of your house.*
    I'm pretty sure that that's the result of a totally different phenomenon. When attempting to be facetious, please make sure that you're also funny. Otherwise it doesn't work.

  7. #57
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Would you try it yourself?
    Absolutely, I'll test anything I'm not 100% certain about.

    The problem is though, that if I didn't believe and it didn't work, I'd just "not have the knack for it". It's something that's hopeless to disprove, but should be easy to prove works. It's still not been proved though. So yes, I'd try it, but I don't think it'd work.

  8. #58
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Absolutely, I'll test anything I'm not 100% certain about.

    The problem is though, that if I didn't believe and it didn't work, I'd just "not have the knack for it". It's something that's hopeless to disprove, but should be easy to prove works. It's still not been proved though. So yes, I'd try it, but I don't think it'd work.
    Actually, the flipside of this may be even worse. If you did try it and it did work, we'd enter into confirmation bias range. It's really hard to maintain perspective when something works, sometimes... most notably when we don't know what the chance of something working is.

    That's the main reason for the controlled experiments.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I'm pretty sure that that's the result of a totally different phenomenon. When attempting to be facetious, please make sure that you're also funny. Otherwise it doesn't work.
    Then our senses of humour are clearly at odds. Prepare to die a horrible death.

    I threw that out there because another explanation could rest with the way muscles act when 'fatigued'. It may not be your ideomotor response, but it falls along similar lines, so don't get your panties in a twist.

  10. #60
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Absolutely, I'll test anything I'm not 100% certain about.

    The problem is though, that if I didn't believe and it didn't work, I'd just "not have the knack for it". It's something that's hopeless to disprove, but should be easy to prove works. It's still not been proved though. So yes, I'd try it, but I don't think it'd work.
    Simple solution. Find someone who can and get them to put their hand on your back the next time you can. When I say "simple", I'm assuming that there are water-dowsers around your parts.

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