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Depression may be evolutionary adaptive

Kangol

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Personally, I think depression is over diagnosed. Maybe that has something to do with western culture, and societal expections, but people get diagnosed with depression after major life events, such as a death of someone they were close too. A perfectly natural response of grief gets misconstrued as depression. I think this may have something to do with the clinical definitions of depression also......I don't think this neccessairly translates as a genetic weakness.
I also rather think from what surmised from the literture I have read, that depression is very much determined by enviromental factors. Control enviromental factors, and you pretty much eliminate it's expression. Predisposition dosen't equal definite expression.

That said, It is not my intention to belittle those of you who've been diagnosed with depression.

Depression being over-diagnosed is a common criticism in the last several years of having anti-depression drugs available, and it is likely true. That people have access to the drugs as a quick solution is a problem stemming from both the doctor and patient.

The availability of the drugs allows for:
1) Doctors to have a ready, reliable quick solution to the patients' problems.
2) Patients to convince themselves and doctors that they need those drugs.

Also, it is true that predisposition doesn't mean expression.

However, when speaking from an evolutionary perspective, we have to talk in terms of statistics over long periods of time. If the potential is there, and we are of course assuming that there is a potential for higher risk of depression, then it is likely that it will be expressed.

My point was never that all depressed people are genetically inferior; in fact I said that in agreement with the article, low to moderate levels of normal depression as a reaction to difficulty can be advantageous. My point is that, like all other genetically related disorders, there is a clear disadvantage that puts their genetic line at risk, and that this is partly what allows species to evolve and survive.

Perhaps, given a more effective drug and its implementation in healthcare, as well as a stronger awareness of neurocognitive disorders, we can better prepare future generations to deal with depression to the point of avoiding severe or chronic bouts.
 

nightning

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Well I think it's obvious that the OP is a gross simplification. But we do have a serious problem in western society of over prescribing antidepressants. Of course the drug companies helped promote this because that's how they make $$$.

I'm not sure how chronic pain for the most part weed out genetic weaknesses either... Seeing as the majority of people with chronic pain are the elderly... or at least those past reproductive age... But that's off topic.
 

Mole

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An illness is caused by a lesion or an infectious agent.

But so far, no lesion or infectious agent has been found to cause Clinical Depression.

Yet doctors all over the world are treating Clinical Depression.
 

Kangol

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I'm not sure how chronic pain for the most part weed out genetic weaknesses either... Seeing as the majority of people with chronic pain are the elderly... or at least those past reproductive age... But that's off topic.

A good deal of people would be in chronic pain and discomfort were it not for modern medicines and vaccines. Asthma and polio, to name a few amongst the many disorders, aren't much of a problem today. As for how it weeds it out, just look at what you pointed out: that the majority of fertile people aren't in chronic pain. If there were things wrong with people who had serious illnesses and defects without feeling pain to suppress their survival rate, it would pose a significant problem to the gene pools of our species.
 

wildcat

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As described by a recent article on scientific american... depression may be the evolutionary approach to serious analytical problem solving?

Theory... we get depressed because we have a problem we need to sit down and solve. Ruminating over it directs our energy/resources towards this problem. Then once the solution is found, the depression goes away. If this is true... does it point to cognitive therapy being a "better" treatment than antidepressants? That is, resolve the problem rather than covering up the symptoms?

Depression's Evolutionary Roots: Scientific American
True. :)
 

Happyman

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Oh my.. This is the most interesting article I've read in months!
That's why I love this forum so much! :D

I think it's very, very true. Every time I postponed taking some important decision I got into this minor-depression state. I didn't see any people, didn't eat much and then I made a decision.
In many old cultures (including Native Americans, Vikings etc) it was traditional to let young men 'be depressed' until they realize who they want to become. (described in the 'Iron John' by Robert Bly, for instance).

I believe the same goes for intense creative process. Scientists who barely check what they dress in, artists who don't eat while creating. I, myself, get into cave-in mode each time I write a novel. I write in one-week-long bursts when I don't see anybody, I eat only after I finish writing and focus only on creating (concerns of outer world are cut!).
Also look at the meditation sessions in Buddhism, Christianity etc. Ha!
This article really opened my eyes to all this! Thank you nightning! :)


PS The jerk was right after all.. :doh:
YouTube - TOM CRUISE CONDEMN BROOKE SHIELDS FOR PROMOTE ANTI-DEPRESSAN
 

Synapse

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I would call this environmental rather.

When depressed your body is screaming at you that something is messing with your body.

Its like if you stabbed your foot with a knife, your nerves will tell you don't fucking do that, your body has an intricate network of nerves that tell your foot that stabbing your foot is wrong and suffer the consequences. Wouldn't this be similar with the notion of depressions/anxieties etc. You just have to figure out which part of your body is deficient in which hormone, vitamin, diseased, substance that is leeching your systems serotonin levels out of you.
 

OrionzRevenge

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Absolutely--it's the dumbest, most harmful thing a doctor can possibly do, to put someone that age on medication when they don't need it. As a result of what happened, I seem to have lost the ability to produce normal levels of serotonin; all those years while my body developed, it learned to rely on pills for that, and now that I've stopped taking them, I'm tired all the time and seldom happy. I would've been much better off if my doctor had let me be a little picky and a little depressed, as many well-adjusted people are. So let this be a lesson to any parents, patients, or physicians who might be browsing.

Good cautionary points Nunki.

I haven't stopped by here much, but I wanted to say hi!
BTW: Your avatar seems... familiar somehow :D
 

Llewellyn

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Possible cliche, but meant as a support of therapy over strong medication: it makes sense that anything that you survive gives an evolutionary advantage. It could be another term for 'success' as well. Maybe depression is one of the ways the need for having a problem to solve can work out.
 

KiwiBurst

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I think the article is only true for situational depression. When people are depressed for no reason and for a long period of time, then the depression is not advantageous to them. I agree with some others in this thread that it's a genetic weakness. For this group of people, researchers discovered that the success rate of treatment is low. Only 1/3 of adults show a postive response to drugs. (Some or all of their symptoms are controlled). The most effective treatment for clinical depression is a combination of ONGOING therapy and medication. Even with combined treatment, the success rate of recovery is still too low.
In my opinion, medication should NEVER be used in a child. There is not enough conclusive evidence that prove that the benefits outweigh the risks. We don't even know all the risks involved. Some articles say that long term use of SSRIs (a class of antidepressants) affect the development of a child's brain and that this effect is permanent. That's scary! Don't use medication in young children or teens.
 

ThinkingAboutIt

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Depression is a focus on self. If you stop focusing on self, depression ends. Your circumstances don't have to end in order to do that.
 

guesswho

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As described by a recent article on scientific american... depression may be the evolutionary approach to serious analytical problem solving?

Theory... we get depressed because we have a problem we need to sit down and solve. Ruminating over it directs our energy/resources towards this problem. Then once the solution is found, the depression goes away. If this is true... does it point to cognitive therapy being a "better" treatment than antidepressants? That is, resolve the problem rather than covering up the symptoms?

Depression's Evolutionary Roots: Scientific American

Analytical problem solving?
What if the problem is irrational?
What if the problem cannot be solved?
Depression sounds more comforting in theory.

The thing is that people actually solve their problems, except the irrational ones, and the ones that are hard to solve (getting a painful surgery), and the ones that CANNOT be solved. (being in a wheel chair)

How can depression improve anything?
Depression won't fix your irrational shit, it will make it more irrational.
Being hopeless doesn't really make you go take a painful surgery.

Cognitive therapy IS better than antidepressants.
For example:
If someone worries about something irrational, and then gets depressed, getting antidepressants will reduce the worry. Or even stop it.
But when you stop the antidepressants the worry comes back.
CBT actually tackles the source, makes you understand your irrational shit, and then you can handle it. But it's still annoying.

So yes from this point of view, depression forces you to handle your irrational shit, and then you can get better.

But what CAN you do if your problem cannot be solved?
If you have some illness that won't go away, if you are in pain because of your back, and other stuff like that. That's not going to go away. And depression won't solve that problem.

That's where it fails.
Stupid primitive mechanism. That's what it is.
 

nolla

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That was an interesting article, thanks! It's good to have your common sense backed by science once in a while...
 

Moiety

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I think depression as a phase can teach you a lot. People who overcome depression often become wiser.

Being stuck for too long in a depression state is obviously fucked up.
 

guesswho

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Last night when I posted I didn't actually read the article, because I was kinda depressed and pissed off. Today I read the article and it is very interesting.

One thing is for sure and I agree 100%: Depression won't go away until you solve your problems.

'Several studies have found that expressive writing promotes quicker resolution of depression, and they suggest that this is because depressed people gain insight into their problems.'
My depression ended when I started writing about my problems, when I started analizing them and solving them. The depressive ruminations are obsessive. They are a major pain in the ass. But in the end I wouldn't have solved those problems if I wouldn't have been depressed. I didn't really have a choice.

The article is right about the problem solving. There is actually no other way to end your depression. The only way is to solve your problems (many of them aren't even conscious).

Some examples of unconscious or more semi-conscious problems:
Disturbed thinking patterns. Things in which you believe that are false.
For example you may think you are very defective, when you aren't, you may think that you can't actually lead people, when you can and want, you may think that nobody loves you, when people all around you care about you, but you just don't see that. You may think that you are alone...because nobody around you thinks like you, which again...is false. Things like that. You get to fix them.

You get to fix every single aspect about yourself. Because you don't have a choice.
You either obsess about it for the rest of your life or fix it.


The main idea is that yes...depression forces you to solve your issues when they're too many, issues that you don't really think about...it's like they're somewhere in the background.

I really liked the article.
 
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