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  1. #21
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    There is only two emotions, love, and the opposite of what love is, depression obviously branches off from this. If you are depressed something is wrong, it's simple and it's been that way for ages, no further evolution required.

    Is depression rising? Obviously yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean we are evolving, we are just in troubled times. But now that we know somethings wrong, we can work on a solution.

  2. #22
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    Depression rising? Obviously yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean we are evolving, we are just in troubled times. But now that we know somethings wrong, we can work on a solution.
    Ah, yes I don't think it implies that depression is a marker of further evolution, but that it's a result of past evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    I don't mean to imply that those who are chronically or severely depressed are unfit for survival, but I think that this notion does add to the role of depression in the evolutionary process. While some depression is normal and indeed advantageous for some situations, it also helps to select more fit generations for the constantly changing demands of the future.
    I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment. Seems almost paradoxical that depression developed as a tool to survive, but also that depression is a marker of not being entirely fit (but obviously that's where the distinction between bouts of depression and years-long depression comes in).

    (also the article brought up medication vs therapy and how looking at it in a different light could be beneficial, so I think people sharing their experiences with either is still more or less on topic--Nightning can certainly correct me if they think otherwise though )
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    Should people with low incomes be depressed and anxious? I dunno. If they're in such a bad place that they cannot afford to feed/house/clothe themselves and their families maybe they shouldn't be paying a shrink and buying happy pills?

    And if they are able to feed/house/clothe themselves and their families, then maybe they need to get their head together and figure out why that isn't good enough for them.
    I really don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm talking about people who live in slums, ghettos, places where there really is no opportunity and everyone around them is in a gang on welfare. It's really easy to judge people when one has come from middle class privelege their entire life, but it isn't as easy as "getting their head together" as it is for someone from a more stable background.

    And I wouldn't call the medicine prescribed for anxiety and depression "happy pills." Many of these people are on public health programs for mental illness.

  4. #24
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Great article, makes you think of depression in a different way, at least it did for me. The human body is a really complex system, and it's amazing how we are put together, both physically and mentally. I think the article holds true for non-serious cases of depression. Next time I'm really sad, maybe I'll try to do some math problems, and in all seriousness I'll probably able to do them well.

  5. #25
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I really don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm talking about people who live in slums, ghettos, places where there really is no opportunity and everyone around them is in a gang on welfare. It's really easy to judge people when one has come from middle class privelege their entire life, but it isn't as easy as "getting their head together" as it is for someone from a more stable background.
    Alright, well I didn't come from a middle class stable background, just FYI, I'm not judging from a point of never having lived in poverty. My mom was a single mother without a college education living in a town where even with the best job she managed to get (director of a program for abused women) we were still using food stamps and didn't have a working car. I know this was hard on her. If she had chosen to take medicine for her moods instead of choosing to move, go back to college, and send me to live with my dad, we'd still be living like that.

    And I guess I should have phrased it differently, as I sounded like I was trivializing depression that stems from circumstance. I guess I mean they should make an effort to get their lives together, because it isn't impossible. And if they choose therapy, I still think that would be way more helpful than medication, because medication won't change the fact that you live in an unsafe environment or that you can't afford your rent.

    And I wouldn't call the medicine prescribed for anxiety and depression "happy pills." Many of these people are on public health programs for mental illness.
    I don't know what difference calling them "happy pills" makes. If we're talking about impoverished schizophrenics with comorbid depression living in public housing and getting medication from public health programs, then YES they should continue to receive medication. I guess I should have clarified that I wasn't talking about extreme poverty+extreme depression where all other options are exhausted, I was thinking of a larger section of the population.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    As described by a recent article on scientific american... depression may be the evolutionary approach to serious analytical problem solving?

    Theory... we get depressed because we have a problem we need to sit down and solve. Ruminating over it directs our energy/resources towards this problem. Then once the solution is found, the depression goes away. If this is true... does it point to cognitive therapy being a "better" treatment than antidepressants? That is, resolve the problem rather than covering up the symptoms?

    Depression's Evolutionary Roots: Scientific American
    The invention of the printing press in 1440 gave rise to the dream of universal literacy.

    So to realise this dream we compelled children by State Law to leave their parents and the comfort of their homes and go to special institutions with specially trained staff in order to learn to read and write.

    And as print is linear and sequential, we learnt to perceive the world in a linear and sequential fashion.

    And linear and sequential thinking led to the assembly line and the industrial revolution.

    Unfortunately linear and sequential thinking is not intuitive but counter-intuitive. And so through the industrial revolution we lost touch with our intuitive self in the, "dark satanic mills".

    And losing touch with our intuitive self we drive ourselves relentlessly like an assembly line. So it is no wonder we have an epidemic of Clinical Depression.

    However in 1840 the electric telegraph was invented.

    And whereas literacy is entirely counter-intuitive, the electronic media such as the telegraph, the telephone and the television are entirely intuitive.

    Absolutely no one is compelled by State Law to attend a special institution to learn to use the telephone or television.

    We all learn to use the telephone and television intuitively at home.

    But although, "the dark satanic mills", are closing in the First World, we still retain the habits of thought we learnt at school to prepare us to work in, "the dark satanic mills". So it is no wonder we are still dogged by the Black Dog.

    And dare I say that Satan may well take the form of the Black Dog.

    However we can regain our balance and our joie de vivre by practising l'alternance.

    And l'alternance can be practised on the telephone, on Skype, by reading aloud that joyful book, "Wind in the Willows", turn and turn about.

    What greater contrast could there be but between the River Bank and the Dark Satanic Mills.

    One is joy, the other depression.

  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Why is reading nonintuitive?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Why is reading nonintuitive?
    Almost no one learns to read and write intuitively. Almost everyone is compelled by State Law attend as special institution called a School to learn to read and write.

    In contrast we all learn to use the telephone and television intuitively at home.

    Perhaps the problem we have understanding one another is that you are asking me is reading and writing non-intuitive when I am saying reading and writing is counter-intuitive.

    Non-intuitive and counter-intuitive have completely different meanings.

  9. #29
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Almost no one learns to read and write intuitively. Almost everyone is compelled by State Law attend as special institution called a School to learn to read and write.

    In contrast we all learn to use the telephone and television intuitively at home.

    Perhaps the problem we have understanding one another is that you are asking me is reading and writing non-intuitive when I am saying reading and writing is counter-intuitive.

    Non-intuitive and counter-intuitive have completely different meanings.
    What's the difference, then?

    I learned to read and write mostly at home, and improved on this skill myself with my own curiosity by reading difficult books that I was curious about. I learned to write cursive at school, and after about fifth grade, when I wasn't forced to use it, I never used it ever again.

    Is it that reading and writing are counterintutive, or just counterintuitive to those who are not compelled by something other than school to learn them?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I learned to read and write mostly at home, and improved on this skill myself with my own curiosity by reading difficult books that I was curious about. I learned to write cursive at school, and after about fifth grade, when I wasn't forced to use it, I never used it ever again.
    You are the exception that proves the rule. Almost all children do not learn to read and write naturally at home. Almost all children are compelled by State Law to attend school to learn to read and write.

    Even Shakespeare had something to say about the schoolboy dragging himself off to school.

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