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  1. #11
    Senor Membrane
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    Hmm... it seems that the only way one can believe in free will is to believe in supernatural. Interesting, yet depressing..

  2. #12
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    You can also choose (in free will) to believe, like I do. Is a lot like optimism - only thing going for it are its benefits.


    I do not believe in determinism either, in part for the reasons Jock pointed out, and in part because if it's the kind of knowledge (assuming it's a fact) for which there is no use. I believe knowledge is inherently usable (however insignificantly). If determinism were true, there's nothing I could attribute to conscious or subconscious decision. I couldn't even "use" that knowledge to get some peace of mind like "Hey, no matter what, I can't be held accountable for my actions nor can anybody else...let's just go with the flow and take the chillpill!.

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think the greatest problem in such philosophical ideas like basing causality on determinism lies in the metaphysical approach to the topic.

    The behaviour of atoms according to causality is predictable but the human future is not predictable. These are two pair of shoes playing in two different dimensions. People too easy connect them and loose track of information on the way.

    I have got the greatest problems with metaphysicists myself, because they make it easy to themselves.

    Fact is there is no way to tell the future and there is no logical construct so far that includes free will and is able to predict exactly what will happen next. To think about it further is a logical flaw and to reduce human living to the dimension of atoms, is a loss of information about the system.

    We had this discussions about determinism, when I was younger and though I didnt know much about physics then, I never could make up my mind about the fact that you can abstract or pervert a given system in such a way to fit into another. It's like ending with all physics after you finally discovered pi and now think you know it all.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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