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Thread: Why do we die?

  1. #41
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    Entropy

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    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Cell decay, major organs unable to recover. Once we figure out how to transfer our inner conciousness , our invidual entities into sustainable solid synthetic bodies, repairable. We will no longer fear death.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  3. #43

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    I think death is not inevitable. There is a belief, which has probably been mentioned already in this thread, that once medicine reaches a point where it is increasing length of life faster than 1 year of life/year of research, then man should not die. Of course there are still car crashes or spaceship crashes or whatever we have by then, and other forms of accidental death though.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  4. #44
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I want to die (not until I lived a very full and rich life though), I personally could not face immortality. I've known this since I was a wee one. Although in a way we are (circle of life, any one). I think the physical plane is one we must pass through, to get to the next, and yes, pass into the unconscious collective. Don't ask me me to explain that one logically though.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  5. #45
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I don't think that entropy is an inevitable outcome in biology. There are a few species that do not die of age (albeit rare and simple), and there are various cell types that manage themselves fine right up until death.

    Rather, I think that evolution has favored the "live hard, die young, screw like bunnies" path. While not beneficial to the lucky individual this does seem a stronger choice for the species. Most species are going to die anyway by a given age. Take humans for example. As recently as a couple thousand years ago people lived until 30ish. 30 is only the very start of physical decline, so disease, war, famine, accidents, etc., would kill most people far before simple entropy claimed them. Therefore there was little biological advantage to maintain the body for countless decades but there was biological advantage to develop and mate quickly, even at the expense of hardships later on. This also seems to agree with the average life expectancy of various species - mice for example only live a few years at best in captivity, because there's little point in living beyond this age in the wild. Humans living until 80+ under ideal circumstances speaks to how well we were over-engineered - humans that die in their 40s, 50s, 60s are stark reminders that we're on borrowed time.

    Also, immortals would be at a strong disadvantage for a few reasons. If child raising ability wasn't stunted somehow, human overpopulation would be rampant. Humans would be perpetually fighting one another for resources and to continue their families, until society learned to keep their populations firmly in check, which is something we're struggling with now. If child raising ability WAS stunted somehow, this reduces the ability for society to adapt to certain hardships, or for the population to recover after being cut down.

    And regardless of the reasons why, this is the hand we were dealt as a species and we've done pretty good with it. The science to watch here will be genetics, because it will be genetics that starts to tinker with our building blocks. Sufficiently advanced genetics will remove birth defects, certain illnesses, tweak certain traits more in line with modern demands, and ultimately achieve longevity and even immortality. People living even twice as long as they do now would be a significant challenge to society - I'd love to see how it works out.

  6. #46
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    Cell decay, major organs unable to recover. Once we figure out how to transfer our inner conciousness , our invidual entities into sustainable solid synthetic bodies, repairable. We will no longer fear death.
    thats pretty N about what you said. How can esfps come up with that kind of post?
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

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  7. #47
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untypable View Post
    thats pretty N about what you said. How can esfps come up with that kind of post?
    You NT's should know better then to fall for generalized assumptions.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  8. #48
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Overpopulation.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #49

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    Space travel (hopefully)
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  10. #50
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Our bodies don't make the decision to weaken and die, they do everything they can do to maintain, until they can't anymore. It's the outside environment combined with the physical matter our bodies are made up of that causes it to eventually die.
    All of the things that we use to maintain can be regenerated in the same way they were generated in the beginning, so obviously they can be recreated to replace the expired ones.

    Think of it like a second puberty (talking about eating habits). When you run low on supplies, you grow a new psychological compulsion to gather the necessary materials to fix yourself up.

    We don't have that phase in our lives so there must be a reason. It's possible that rearing children dooms us: Self neglect in the face of caring for the vulnerable young pushes us past the point of no return.

    That is to say, the degeneration that inevitably happens during child-rearing and the acceptance of it (which might even have been ingrained parallel to young-nurturing drives as we evolved) probably do enough damage that regeneration of maintenance systems becomes too difficult -- a maintenance growth spurt is just too exhausting to acquire the resources for after all the compromised systems.
    After all, the physical faculties are quicker to go than any internal systems, thereby making an overhaul more expensive than profitable in terms of energy input and output.

    Imagine, by analogy, a dying company who's run themselves out of the means to purchase new equipment which happens be the only potential salvation of the company.

    They can't save themselves.

    The only other explanation I could come up with for why we die hasn't happened yet, so it doesn't make sense but it will happen and it makes me laugh.

    Overpopulation is a good evolutionary reason to avoid living forever.


    Huh... when I started writing I thought I agreed with Jock, but I don't.

    'Course I wasn't really... there... when we evolved so there's undoubtably something in the chronology that I missed, but I imagine the story went something like this.

    The thing is though, my impression is that it only originally began this way, and as we evolved, it became more of a psychological acceptance of death, which blocked reason to ever develop a drive to survive to an overhaul.

    So I guess I kind of do agree with him.
    we fukin won boys

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