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  1. #1
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Default What if carbon isn't The Problem?

    I believe some people tend to view me as anti-environment, but that perception couldn't be further from the truth. I used to buy into the CO2 global warming theory, but as I've learned more about the environment and the climate, I was left with more questions than answers. I'm not starting this thread to talk about carbon, and I'd rather that specific issue not be discussed in this thread, at all. There are already plenty of other threads on that topic. I want to start a discussion about other environmental issues, like habitat destruction (which I believe is far more potent than the anthropogenic greenhouse effect).

    We're in the middle of a mass extinction that started long before the industrial revolution.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #2
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Are talking about habitat destruction being a factor in terms of warming, or just habitat destruction in general? I will admit I'm not too knowledgeable on the issue and what it entails, but I'm interested in the general climate conversation.

    In general, because of what I know about climate systems and complex, chaotic systems in general, pinning 1 thing as a lone tipping point is often not an accurate statement to make when describing how that system changes.



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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    In terms of warming, I do believe urban heat islands play a role with concrete and other materials storing more heat than plants and dirt.

    Another issue that worries me: Colony Collapse Disorder. I don't know enough about it to know how large the threat really is, but what I've read doesn't sound good.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I can definitely agree with that. Urban heat retention is definitely there. Also, what I find interesting are the environmental factors that are beyond our control. Tectonic movement, Axis shifts, and even the earth's magnetic field has apparently weakened about 5% over a century. Some seem to suggest the field hits 0, then reverses, insinuating a dramatic atmospheric burn off and solar wind bath that will make things a tad difficult for a bit. Not for a couple thousand years though.



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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Regarding the Earth's magnetic field, I don't know if it can actually hit zero. It's a very complex field, far from being like your typical bar magnet. I don't think we'll even notice a pole reversal in every day life, other than the auroras, which will probably be more pronounced.

    Have you ever seen a study on the effect of urban heat islands?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I was just reading about how the pole shift is interferring with the migration patterns of animals.

    Could it have some unanticipated effects on human animals as well?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Another issue that worries me: Colony Collapse Disorder. I don't know enough about it to know how large the threat really is, but what I've read doesn't sound good.
    Lateralus, I am among those not convinced that 'carbon is the problem'. For the record.

    Can you quickly outline why you are worried about colony collapse disorder? What is it? Do you think it's happening right now? I haven't read about this specifically.

    I often get taken as anti-environment too. I don't believe in anthropogenic global warming but of course I'm interested (and, if necessary) concerned about threats to the environment. I'd just like to hear more about this.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I think it's a multitude of factors. The colony idea is certainly one for concern. That could be extended to humans as well as I suspect that we have been poisoning ourselves for quite a while now and the increase in abberrant behavior could be the result.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    In terms of warming, I do believe urban heat islands play a role with concrete and other materials storing more heat than plants and dirt.
    But for any given area of the earth's surface, it's not like there's MORE energy in urbanized environments than their pre-urban times. I'd imagine that the urban environments, while they retain more heat at night, etc., if anything would reflect more sunlight than trees, dirt, etc. (that's a guess).

    Or are you talking about plants converting energy (sunlight) to increased potential energy (biomass), whereas this doesn't happen among man-made materials prevalent in cities (concrete, etc.) and that is retained as heat?

    Just speculating.
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  10. #10
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    But for any given area of the earth's surface, it's not like there's MORE energy in urbanized environments than their pre-urban times. I'd imagine that the urban environments, while they retain more heat at night, etc., if anything would reflect more sunlight than trees, dirt, etc. (that's a guess).
    Urban areas are definitely heat sinks/hot spots - the retain heat much more than non-urban areas, in general. A number of cities have started doing things like planting rooftop gardens and painting rooftops white (reflects heat) to combat this.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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