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USB Microphones/Digital Microphones

kuranes

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I've been getting interested in these lately. Anybody have experience with them ? ( Read what they have to say first, on the site links provided, before you summarily dismiss them, as there have been some changes recently in this technology from what was being offered when they first came out. )

I'm wondering how close one has to be to the MXL mike for it to work, for one thing. ( I need more info about this latency/device driver question also. ) The same company offers a new "shotgun mike" product, too; however I don't know if it is a USB/digital model or not.

Some different types of microphones that I discovered in my explorations lately.

( 1. ) MXL 009 - The only one of these in my OP that I can actually hope to afford any time soon.MXL USB Mics

With the above product they are supplying everything that you need for a certain level of sophistication. ( See the Neumanns for more sophisticated options. ) This same MXL company also makes a little rod that can convert the input of a regular microphone into something suitable for a USB connection.

( 2. ) Neumann -

The new digital microphones - example -the D-01
Georg Neumann GmbH - Products/Current Microphones//

It would be cool to put two of those into the "ears" of this - Georg Neumann GmbH - Products/Current Microphones//
 

Jack Flak

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*shrug* I have an SM58 Beta, a mixer, and an RCA cable w/mini-plug adapter. I'm not much help, am I.
 

Xander

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Any particular reason you don't want a normal mic? I've tried USB headsets and most often they use software to control the sound and so anything you spend on your soundcard is wasted. I think you'd get better results with a decent soundcard and a normal mic, that certainly holds true for headsets.
 

kuranes

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Any particular reason you don't want a normal mic?
Well, I'm just examining my options. People keep directing me away from hardware, and at DAW software, and that necessitates expenditures on a laptop for the field recording I want to do, and blah blah.

There are a bunch of different microphones that I have been told I need for different applications, such as interviews versus capturing environmental noises etc. So you've got shotgun mikes, dynamic mikes, condenser mikes, etc. if you want to make a professional recording that really captures nuances. Some of these require phantom power and some don't. There's also the question of pre-amps and a bunch of other considerations, not that I'm an expert. Just relating what I've been told and read etc.

For a field recording unit, I was told the "Sound Devices 702" was very good, but buying it would kill the budget. Of course I could get a cheap little Zoom digital recorder for $200 maybe, but I have my doubts about some of the products on that level. ( I tried something similar out in the store and it couldn't even pick up people at the other end of the service desk. Pathetic. )

Anyway, having a digital microphone would remove the need for pre-amps, and phantom power, at least for whatever the digital mike was good for. ( It might only be good for applications that are restricted to the studio anyway, or only be useful for the interviews, which would neutralize some of the advantages that I thought it might represent. ) Less hardware to have to lug around, though.

At some point, I have to quit examining options and actually make a move on this stuff, and I'm hoping to have a little extra cash around mid-December. The interviews are going to be more important than environmental noises anyway, which I can pick up as samples from others if I want to go the cheater's route for now. ( Of course the Chicago winter will put a crimp in things too. )

( Maybe get samples from F7 Sound and Vision | Recording and audio production tips, gear reviews, free sound effects and WAVs, plus unique CDs and lots more. )

The DAW might end up being the new "Logic" release. I've got to think about the cost of lessons, too, as I may not pick the techniques up quickly, despite their maybe being "intuitively designed " etc. A friend owns a laptop that I may be able to buy. ( I could get a cheap PC laptop from Tiger Direct or something like that, but my friend's got a Macbook, or whatever they're called. )
 

Venom

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Okay K I'm not the world's foremost authority on this kinda stuff. I'm no audiophile but what about the following
Sony Microphone: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo
ExpressCard Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook SB0710EF - Sound Blaster - Your Music and Movies. Way Better.

That way you can buy any laptop with a PCMCIA socket (most have them) and then plug and play.

so i take it that the express sound card plugs into the PCMCIA socket?

my problem with recording music was that my sound card couldnt really handle it... i'd have to turn the sound card recording volume down to practically 0, to avoid the signal being distorted (or chopped off on the edges).

i was basically using a vintage fender tube amp --> sm57 mic --> pre amp/recording thingy --> line in audio jack --> audacity. could the express sound card solve my sound level issues?
 

kuranes

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Okay K I'm not the world's foremost authority on this kinda stuff. I'm no audiophile but what about the following
Sony Microphone: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo
ExpressCard Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook SB0710EF - Sound Blaster - Your Music and Movies. Way Better.

That way you can buy any laptop with a PCMCIA socket (most have them) and then plug and play.
Thanks for the tips !

I'll look them over and see what's what, if I can. The problem nowadays ( here in the States, anyway ) is that you cannot go anywhere and actually listen to the set-up you are proposing to buy, in, say a retail operation. (That's even assuming that all the components are being sold through one outfitter.) You must buy them ( or order them and have them delivered is more like it. Nobody is willing to stock anything but the most "bread and butter" items ) and take them home, and then hope for the best. As long as the unit does what it was "supposed" to do, there will be no refunds.

I'm not capable of determining, just by reading spec sheets etc., of whether something can be performing as it is designed to do, but still not meeting my needs, or whether it is simply not performing as it was designed to do.

So I end up having to ask various people who are "more experienced". Invariably they will suggest some other set-up versus approving mine, although sometimes they may know enough about certain items to disapprove them for certain applications.

The price for your suggested components sure looks nice, though, compared to what I've been looking at.

A number of lo-fi field recording "artists" ( unknowns ) recommended the Sony Mini-Disc, which is another fairly inexpensive recorder, which would obviously work with your microphone also. I want to be able to create material that sounds professional, and so I'm never sure whether the lo-fi routes are simply good unpretentious ways of accomplishing my goals, or whether they are amateurish approximations that would only satisfy kids, or serve more as "sketches" than 'drawings" if you will.

I'm leery of getting PC laptops too, as I have always just known my Apple workstation. ( Whenever I am forced to use PC's in work office environments, I notice them frequently crashing. ) Still, my budget is too small to simply nod to every high priced "top of the line" suggestion.

Thank you.

so i take it that the express sound card plugs into the PCMCIA socket?

my problem with recording music was that my sound card couldnt really handle it... i'd have to turn the sound card recording volume down to practically 0, to avoid the signal being distorted (or chopped off on the edges).

i was basically using a vintage fender tube amp --> sm57 mic --> pre amp/recording thingy --> line in audio jack --> audacity. could the express sound card solve my sound level issues?
Keep us posted.

When I was looking at the set-ups I mentioned in the OP, the audio software connection, that everyone seemed to assume would be used, was something called Reaper. Not sure if that's applicable to your question ( re: Audacity ) or whether I'm talking apples and oranges here.

Martoon mentioned something in my "home studio electronica" thread that may be useful to you, too. I'll have to go re-examine that.
 

dga

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Stay away from soundblaster stuff for anything serious. Along with better preamps, in more expensive sound cards you get better latency. As always, budget dictates a lot. For about 200, you can go for an edirol ua-25. 400, presonus firebox. 600, Motu. 800, RME fireface. I really wouldnt go less than 200, even if it soudns like a lot. The edirol unit has pre amps for mic, guitar, line level, midi if you need it, and runs off usb power.

Despite their abundance in the market, I would stay away from anything m-audio or behringer. Buy once, cry once.

Mikes are anotehr story. There are much better mikes than the sm-58, but it is pretty tried and true. In the same price class there are other manufacturers with better and worse products. Once you start to spend some bigger coin on mikes, it makes sense even rent from a local sound company before making the purchase. There are very nice mikes which are not durable enough to leave the studio, but they are not ogign to be anyones first purchase. The pickup pattern varies by microphone, and this often dictates usability for a given situation. One usually only wants the sound of what the mike is aiming at, but sometimes not...

There is that saying, "you get what you pay for." Sometimes what you get is not what you expect. Cheap mikes (well under the sm-58 price class) quite often have washers or or some other form of metal to give the illusion of weight and strength. Proper mikes will actually have some electronics inside, often powered by phantom power provided by a preamp.

There are better forums than this for talking about this stuff, such as sound on sound.

Software? I use ableton. It could be better, but I am comfortable with it. Logic only runs on macs. Reaper is donationware and is very good at what it does. if one is starting out, I would look into reaper before jumping into logic. That zoom recorder is actually not bad at all.
 

kuranes

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Here is Martoon's comment that I recalled, from the other thread -
You'll also want to make sure you have a decent low-latency ASIO sound device (your typical consumer soundcard won't cut it - the latency will drive you crazy). I really like the Edirol UA-EX1. It's about $90 (last I checked - probably cheaper now), has good sound quality and about 2ms latency. Plus it's an external USB device, so it's easy to switch it over to your laptop when you want portability. Works great for realtime effects processing for things like guitar, too (e.g., with Guitar Rig 3).
* Notices dga's post and goes to read it *
 

htb

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A number of lo-fi field recording "artists" ( unknowns ) recommended the Sony Mini-Disc, which is another fairly inexpensive recorder, which would obviously work with your microphone also.
In April I recorded a drum kit with a minimal setup, using the Roland R-09 as media (48kHz/24-bit), yielding results that would not be classified as lo-fi. The unit is used by the fellow's own band for stereo recordings of live performances, too, and it performs well.
 
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kuranes

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In April I recorded a drum kit with a minimal setup, using the Roland R-09 as media (48kHz/24-bit), yielding results that would not be classified as lo-fi. The unit is used by the fellow's own band for stereo recordings recordings of live performances, too, and it performs well.
"Noted and logged" as Picard would say. I took a look at this and have not entirely ruled it out. It got some good write-ups. My eyes are not so good these days, and some of these recorders that are so small ( in an effort to make them more like portable cell phone cameras, I guess ) have tiny letters on tiny menus for the user interface, that make things difficult for me. This was, I think, the unit that I tried out in the store,, and it failed to pick up the clerks' voice at the end of the counter with its built in microphones. Of course, one could plug a separately purchased microphone into it, and maybe have a good experience, which is why i'm investigating microphones here.

I realize that different circumstances require ( optimally ) different microphones, but I cannot afford to buy a bunch of different ones, and so I'm wondering which ones are best for all-around use.

Leasing them hadn't occurred to me. I wonder how expensive that is ? If the price is too "up there" it may make it impractical. I remember recently finding out that buying new batteries for my cordless phone was just a bit cheaper than buying an entirely new cordless phone set-up. So I bought the new set-up.

For inexpensive recorders the Marantz ( 660 ? ) has got the most appeal for, and support by field recording "industry" types. It has some interesting onboard editing capabilities, too, which the others lack. ( The Edirol doesn't roll that way, IIRC. ) Still, the Marantz is a fairly small unit also...and I might have to get the Oade Brothers mod done to it first....
 

dga

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that usb mic is interesting, but i'd rather have separate mics and sound cards for more flexibility.
 

Xander

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It's true that Soundblaster are an amateurs soundcard at best, the X-Fi being the best of that class. If you've got the money to spend then have a look at higher end stuff. I was working under the impression that the budget was like $400 or so..

I did find a proper soundcard shop once... let me look around.

Okay try this site
Audio Interfaces: professional hardware for sound input/output
 

kuranes

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It's true that Soundblaster are an amateurs soundcard at best, the X-Fi being the best of that class. If you've got the money to spend then have a look at higher end stuff. I was working under the impression that the budget was like $400 or so..

I did find a proper soundcard shop once... let me look around.

Okay try this site
Audio Interfaces: professional hardware for sound input/output
Not sure where you got the $400.00 part. Here is what this site had to say:
"One of our most frequently asked questions is how to connect a microphone to a PC Computer or laptop and start making audio recordings. Many computers ship with simple dynamic microphones made especially for connecting directly to the soundcard, equipped with 1/8 inch plugs (mini-jacks) that can be plugged straight in to the mic-in socket (often coloured pink on standard sound cards).

However, while this will be appropriate for beginners and those recording for their own use only, musicians and podcasters who want a more professional sound will probably be disappointed with the quality of these generic mics, and may also find the recording quality of a standard sound card is not too good either."

So guess what they recommended ? You got it. A USB or digital microphone. Which brings us full circle. :cool::D

My budget will be a little less than US $2,000, if everything goes similar this year to the previous ( which is not guaranteed ) year.

If I buy the "Sound Devices 702" field recording device, as I said, the entire budget is shot. I won't even have any money for the microphones. But I'll have a good field recorder.

So, I have been looking at other set-ups. Some of these may require more spending in the microphone department ( or somewhere else ) and less in the digital recording department.

So the budget can be somewhat elastic, depending on these factors.

The linked site seemed to be high on M-Audio also, which someone posting to this thread said was not a good choice.

In short; shame on you Xander.

Just kidding. I appreciate all the input from everyone.
 

Xander

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"One of our most frequently asked questions is how to connect a microphone to a PC Computer or laptop and start making audio recordings. Many computers ship with simple dynamic microphones made especially for connecting directly to the soundcard, equipped with 1/8 inch plugs (mini-jacks) that can be plugged straight in to the mic-in socket (often coloured pink on standard sound cards).

However, while this will be appropriate for beginners and those recording for their own use only, musicians and podcasters who want a more professional sound will probably be disappointed with the quality of these generic mics, and may also find the recording quality of a standard sound card is not too good either."
That's why I was looking at a PCMCIA soundcard with standard jack sockets... it just seems that only Creative do one and as discussed it's not really the enthusiasts choice.

How about this
R-44 (R44) - DV247.COM

It's not a mic but with memory cards as it's media then all you need is a $10 card reader and you can bring it all on to your laptop.

The only down side is AA batteries.. but at least they're commonly available.

Perhaps more research would reveal a decent Lion alternative without blowing the entire budget?
 

Jack Flak

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kuranes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using 1/8" jacks, it's the related equipment which comes into question. A Hi-Fi Sound Blaster sound card is only around $50 these days, and you can spend however as much you want on a microphone. All you need to worry about are adapters, and as long as you keep the signal analog all the way to the jack, you won't see much loss, I don't think.
 
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