Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor...

[Uberfuhrer]

Does anyone think he's an ENTP?

TypeLogic says ESFP, but I say differently. He has Ne written all over him; he's always trying to improve everything but fails to consider more practical consequences, such as safety. He is also quick with witticisms, which is often the hallmark of ENTPs.

[Athenian200]

ENTP's mostly seem to just play around with ideas, but Tim works with physical tools, which is more SP. On the other hand, he doesn't use them effiently, which implies weak S, weak T, or both. Also, he seems more concerned with using tools as a badge of virility than to accomplish anything. Hmm... What do you say to ENFP?

[Uberfuhrer]

I can live with that.

Though ENxPs are often concerned with bringing their ideas to reality. Tim certainly is the inventor type, and he shares some major similarities to Doc Brown in Back to the Future in that regard, but they differ in people skills; Tim is better at that, so I can see him leaning closer to F than T.

Se and Ne are both playful. Se, however, is more interested in the here-and-now physical pleasures of using tools. Ne will also probably enjoy using tools, but more for the purpose of creating rather than fixing. ESxPs and ENxPs often look very similar, but I'd expect an ESxP to be more an explorer of the physical world, but less interested in making it better.

EDIT: Tim reminds me of my mom's boyfriend, who is also an ENxP and similarly, he's often perceived as obnoxious, whereas an ESxP tends to be more smooth with interactions. He enjoys coming up with new projects, some of which are not practical, and when he does build things, he usually does a half-assed job; for one thing, he has no sense of aesthetics.

Ne likes changing things for fun. Se is less interested in changing and more interested in maintaining. Although, since Se is directed in the outer world, it tends to adapt well to changes.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

He's an ESTP. He's got that aggressive edge that both ESTP and ESTJ have. However the fact that he likes to do home/car maintainance and make simian grunts (uh oh ooh oh...) makes him more of an ESTP.

Another clear sign of ESTP rather than ENTP is that his knowledge base tends to be limited to mostly home and car maintainance stuff. ENTP's always have a much wider knowledge base. Many ENTP's give off the impression that they know practically everything. ENTP's are naturally curious about ideas, but lose interest easily, so that makes them able to learn something about just about everything. (This is really what makes them natural inventors.) ENTP's are also a lot more clever than ESTP's. Jon Stewart and Graucho Marx are ENTP's. In fact a lot of comedians are ENTP's because ENTP's are quick and clever, so they usually have a snappy comeback for anything.

Tim Allen does not really have a clever mind. He usually makes some grunts as a comeback. He can "invent" in that he can add "more power" to some gadget, but that is well within the abilities of an ESTP. He's just modifying the gadget by tinkering with it. ENTP's inventions are more novel, and the ideas can seem to come out of nowhere. The guy who put a camera in the cell phone was probably an ENTP. (What the hell does a camera have in common with a phone? Nothing. But now that it's there it somehow makes perfect sense.)

Tim reminds me of my mom's boyfriend, who is also an ENxP and similarly, he's often perceived as obnoxious, whereas an ESxP tends to be more smooth with interactions.

ESTP is the stereotypical jock. Wouldn't you describe that type as obnoxious? ENTP's tend to come off as more arrogant than obnoxious (because they are know-it-alls), and ENFP's are the most charismatic of all types. Everyone likes the ENFP.

Tim Allen is ESTP.

[JivinJeffJones]

He certainly is a tool.

[Athenian200]

Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser

He's an ESTP. He's got that aggressive edge that both ESTP and ESTJ have. However the fact that he likes to do home/car maintainance and make simian grunts (uh oh ooh oh...) makes him more of an ESTP.

That was my first impression, too. But I think a real ESTP is better with tools than that. I think Tim is bad with them, and has a lousy sense of direction, and values those things more as an ideal of virility than for any practical purpose like a true ESTP. I think he's an ENFP acting like an ESTP due to misguided ideals instilled in him by his parents.

[cafe]

I think he's an ESTP. His ineptitude on the show has more to do with his hamming for the audience than his lack of skill. He had to have some skill in order to have gotten the show in the first place.

[digesthisickness]

okay, so far i haven't decided anything. i just threw out some tentative thoughts about this as they came to mind.

i, for one, never even thought of him as an ENTP until it was brought up this way.

i always identified with randy. that is until he grew up, went insane, stopped being sarcastic, and turned into a crusader for trees and whales. why they didn't test him for drugs when a complete turn-around of personality is a HUGE sign is beyond me.

uh, but anyway, as i was saaaaying...


i think he's incredibly skilled with the tools. it's the clumsiness that makes it seem like he's not, but clumsy or not, he still plows through to the end and gets the job done, and he couldn't do that if he didn't know how.

so, that means, what? that's he's good with tools, bad with taking the necessary steps to always make sure things won't blow up in his face. instead, he flies more by the seat of his pants, risks big (so either wins big or loses big), and trusts that whatever he's done will work out.

besides, he rebuilds hotrods, etc., and that takes a LOT of skill.

let's see. being an S doesn't automatically make you good with tools anymore than being an N automatically means you won't be good with them, but being an N does make you automatically more apt to dream up something (what something could be instead of what it is or is supposed to be). also, being an N doesn't automatically mean you can't become very skilled with tools. especially if they fit in with a beloved hobby.

the guy in back to the future was fantastic with tools. re-did a hotrod by amping it up too.

let's see, what else, oh! NPs also get preoccupied a lot mentally and are clumsy because of it.

not only does he dream big, but he then likes to use the skills he has to make them come true.

ENTPs also love to teach others what they know. almost to the point of cramming it down their throat without realizing they are, but they also like to do it in an entertaining (sometimes, even if it's just fun for them, so it's only fun for others by proxy) way... so that could explain the show.

hmm.

okay, that's all i've got.

[Uberfuhrer]

Originally Posted by cafe

I think he's an ESTP. His ineptitude on the show has more to do with his hamming for the audience than his lack of skill. He had to have some skill in order to have gotten the show in the first place.

The reason he got on the show was because of his clumsiness, which he displays both in and outside of the show. Half of the time, he fails to recognize that people like the show because of him screwing up.

Regardless, I don't see Se very active in him at all. Se is more of a pleasure seeker. The whole theme of Se is to not be clumsy. Tim is more about imaginative possibilities. Ne consciously tries to make things better. Tim's big picture focus is what makes him inclined to screw up.

I wanted to make a point that inventors (who are generally N types) are also skilled with tools and mechanical stuff -- they have to be. But the way Tim works is clearly conceptual. And I would expect a Se to have more here-and-now concentration. This is why Tim needs Al, who is probably an ISFJ, and consequently, the ENTP's opposite.

He's a classic example of how ENTPs don't necessarily have to be well-rounded, broad-minded, or even intellectuals (which is more Ti aided by Ne). Tim seems very Ne aided by Ti, and he certainly demonstrates that N isn't about bookworm inclinations by itself, but the N certainly is about creativity as opposed to an S, who is more about common sense.

He may not fit Keirsey's description of the ENTP being a mad scientist, but he's very much so in line with Otto Kroeger's much less stereotypical description of the ENTP in Type Talk in that he's always trying to make things better rather than enjoy them as they are.

And Tim is quite good at mental humor actually; an example of this is the way he makes puns about Al's weight.

I think Tim's oldest son on the show is a better example of an ESTP.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer

The reason he got on the show was because of his clumsiness, which he displays both in and outside of the show. Half of the time, he fails to recognize that people like the show because of him screwing up.

Regardless, I don't see Se very active in him at all. Se is more of a pleasure seeker. The whole theme of Se is to not be clumsy. Tim is more about imaginative possibilities. Ne consciously tries to make things better. Tim's big picture focus is what makes him inclined to screw up.

He is a pleasure seeker. That's why he spends so much time on his car. Also he screws up because he's overconfidant and doesn't stop to read instructions. That is classic ESTP. Al is some kind of SJ that does things carefully. That is the contrast. The impulsive SP and the careful SJ.

I wanted to make a point that inventors (who are generally N types) are also skilled with tools and mechanical stuff -- they have to be. But the way Tim works is clearly conceptual. And I would expect a Se to have more here-and-now concentration. This is why Tim needs Al, who is probably an ISFJ, and consequently, the ENTP's opposite.

He's a classic example of how ENTPs don't necessarily have to be well-rounded, broad-minded, or even intellectuals (which is more Ti aided by Ne). Tim seems very Ne aided by Ti, and he certainly demonstrates that N isn't about bookworm inclinations by itself, but the N certainly is about creativity as opposed to an S, who is more about common sense.

SJ's are more about common sense. That is not necessarily true of SP's. Se can be about creativity too. There are lot's of SP artists. In fact Keirsy calls SP Artisans. They can be creative with paint, wood, machines, etc... all sorts of things. Ne is more conceptual than Se, but not necessarily more creative.

He may not fit Keirsey's description of the ENTP being a mad scientist, but he's very much so in line with Otto Kroeger's much less stereotypical description of the ENTP in Type Talk in that he's always trying to make things better rather than enjoy them as they are.

And Tim is quite good at mental humor actually; an example of this is the way he makes puns about Al's weight.

I think Tim's oldest son on the show is a better example of an ESTP.

Any type can make jokes. But an ENTP's jokes will be extremely clever and made up in an instant. An ENTP wouldn't simply make jokes about Al's weight all the time because that would be too repetitive. An ESTP might have a quick comeback, but it will be less original, i.e. always a joke about Al's weight or mother or something else predictable.