Einstein not an archetypical INTP

[Doctor Cringelord]

He seemed to have a peculiar style of self-doubt and second-guessing himself, despite showing a certain confidence in his ideas and theories.

There are a lot of similarities to Jefferson in Einstein.


Interesting side note... both have been suggested as possible Aspies by revisionists. I'm not sure I am convinced.

 

[meowington]

He seemed to have a peculiar style of self-doubt and second-guessing himself, despite showing a certain confidence in his ideas and theories.

There are a lot of similarities to Jefferson in Einstein.


Interesting side note... both have been suggested as possible Aspies by revisionists. I'm not sure I am convinced.

Id have to look into Jefferson. Dont know much about him.

Yeah aspergers is frequently attributed to Einstein. With a mind like his its kind of evident that he deviates from what is considered normal social behavior. He was apparently a very likeable character though.

 

[meowington]

I've changed my mind after reading this article on similarities between INTPs & INFJs.

INFJ vs INTP | Psyphics

Seems like Einstein was an INTP after all.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I've changed my mind after reading this article on similarities between INTPs & INFJs.

INFJ vs INTP | Psyphics

Seems like Einstein was an INTP after all.

If you have a chance to read more about Jefferson then I'd be curious whether you thought he was an INTP or an INFJ.

 

[Kanra Jest]

I've changed my mind after reading this article on similarities between INTPs & INFJs.

INFJ vs INTP | Psyphics

Seems like Einstein was an INTP after all.

This still seems a bit stereotypical. Like INTP's aren't ever poetic or anything.

It seems a lot of prominent INTP types have or had somewhat a flair for the metaphorical and poetic [see: Thomas Jefferson (assuming he was INTP and not INFJ), Adam Smith and the "invisible hand" concept/metaphor, multiple prominent philosophers who were likely INTPs, Abraham Lincoln, et al]. They are primarily abstract logicians, but that can encompass a broad swath of ideas, pursuits, interests and inclinations. While they seek precision and accuracy to some degree, their tendency to abstract thought requires a certain amount of metaphor to get their thoughts and ideas across to the world.

I would say that there are subtypes, and some INTPs fit the mold of the poet-scientist subtype.

I'm more curious about this poetic subtype here. Never heard of one.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

This still seems a bit stereotypical. Like INTP's aren't ever poetic or anything.



I'm more curious about this poetic subtype here. Never heard of one.

I just came up with that on the fly.

 

[virtualinsanity]

Jung stated hypochondria was inferior Si.
And explain how metaphors = Ne and not Ni.

Similies are more like relating one thing to another...which Jung also attributed to Ti.

Metaphors are saying things that have deeper or alternate meaning, which seems better suited for Ni.

Maybe Einstein's thoughts were Ni-Ti or Ti-Ni .
Any type can be poetic as humans naturally have all functions and use them in different ways. Poetry is so general, I wouldn't pin that on any type.

There is a difference between putting your "feelings" into poems and putting your "emotions" into poems. Emotions have nothing to do with the basis of personality type.

An INTP could be as emotional as he/she could be. Emotions can't be controlled. (Only hidden.) An INTP could cry in public but still look down on social norms /Ethics AND subjective values. (Fe & Fi)..

 

[meowington]

Jung stated hypochondria was inferior Si.

Yes, as I said so before. But not just Si. Also inferior Se.

True. But particularly inferior Si types.

To quote Jung on the effects of inferior Si :

His conscious attitude towards both sensation and object is one of ruthless superiority. Not that he means to be ruthless or superior--he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees and rides roughshod over it, just as the sensation type has no eyes for its soul. But sooner or later the object takes revenge in the form of compulsive hypocondriacal ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation.

It's not impossible for anyone to experience bouts of hypochondria I guess, but types with inferior Si/Se are particularly prone to it. Because the Sensation gets mangled through iNtuition (Ni for inferior Se, Ne for inferior Si), possibly resulting in excessive worrying and theorizing on bodily sensations.

Before I thought hypochondria was only typical for INxJs : inferior Se, dominant Ni.
But it goes for both inferior sensation functions : inferior Si, dominant Ne is also a recipe for hypochondria.

It kind of makes perfect sense : inferior sensation, dominant intuition => prone to hypochondria.

And explain how metaphors = Ne and not Ni.

yes, yes and yes. That's exactly why I found it so unusual for a supposed INTP to use that much metaphors in the first place. I thought INFJs are the kings of metaphors.

Similies are more like relating one thing to another...which Jung also attributed to Ti.

Metaphors are saying things that have deeper or alternate meaning, which seems better suited for Ni.

Exactly ! Others in this thread are saying Ne is related to metaphors. I've always seen metaphors as a hallmark of Ni and definitely not Ne.

Maybe Einstein's thoughts were Ni-Ti or Ti-Ni .

Exactly ! A second reason why I initially thought Einstein as an INTP is odd. You're making me doubt all over again. No other type than an INFJ has that strong Ni-Ti.

On the other hand : I've watched some rare & short video footage of Einstein and he appears Ti-dominant and shows no signs of Fe whatsoever. He also did not care much for his own appearance (messy hair etc.) which also seems unusual for an INFJ. Einstein is confusing me bigtime. I think he was above MBTI The exception that confirms the rule. Some high powered mutant

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

In Gulenko's system, Types use the the introverted or extroverted counterpart of their secondary/auxiliary function at "long range." So for instance, an LII, while having auxiliary Ne, would be said to use Ni to some extent. Ne would be strongest at "close range," not necessarily as obvious in the LII at a greater distance (figuratively). Note in the diagram below how Ni occupies the "optimum" column for the TiNe/LII type. Don't mistake this to mean Ni is as strong as Ne for the LII type, just that it plays an important role that must not be downplayed or discarded. Personally, I don't think that strong usage of one function precludes a decent use of its introverted/extroverted counterpart; I say this as the debate seems to be moving to Ne or Ni in Einstein's case.

 

[virtualinsanity]

Yes, as I said so before. But not just Si. Also inferior Se.







Before I thought hypochondria was only typical for INxJs : inferior Se, dominant Ni.
But it goes for both inferior sensation functions : inferior Si, dominant Ne is also a recipe for hypochondria.

It kind of makes perfect sense : inferior sensation, dominant intuition => prone to hypochondria.



yes, yes and yes. That's exactly why I found it so unusual for a supposed INTP to use that much metaphors in the first place. I thought INFJs are the kings of metaphors.



Exactly ! Others in this thread are saying Ne is related to metaphors. I've always seen metaphors as a hallmark of Ni and definitely not Ne.



Exactly ! A second reason why I initially thought Einstein as an INTP is odd. You're making me doubt all over again. No other type than an INFJ has that strong Ni-Ti.

On the other hand : I've watched some rare & short video footage of Einstein and he appears Ti-dominant and shows no signs of Fe whatsoever. He also did not care much for his own appearance (messy hair etc.) which also seems unusual for an INFJ. Einstein is confusing me bigtime. I think he was above MBTI The exception that confirms the rule. Some high powered mutant

According to Jung, Ti represents theories and analysis. Imagine a Ti dominant sitting back and people watching. Couldn't he reach the same conclusion an Ni user "automatically" gets unconsciously from Se, through natural human observation and (Ti) analysis? If Ni grasps things as "aha" it makes sense that they wouldn't be using Ni to analyze. (Ni is not an analytical function, anyways.) I've never watched Einstein so I should digress. I do think trickling types down to how well they use metaphors or not is a bit limiting as they have to use the functions in their other ways as well.


PS - You're right about hypochondria.

 

[meowington]

I do think trickling types down to how well they use metaphors or not is a bit limiting as they have to use the functions in their other ways as well.

Yeah. It's a thin line between typing and stereotyping it seems

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

But i love einstein though because he created a formula which is flawed because the earth is flat and it has no gravity. Wake up people. The end is near

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Some of my posts make me cringe. "Scientist poet" or whatever the hell that means?

 

[Red Herring]

I searched for video material of him speaking (there is plenty pf him reading out statements but free, spontaneous speech is hard to find) and wow, his voice sounds like Peter Lorre! Very soft and gentle. Slow and deliberate and highly concentrated when reading. But there is footage of him quibbing and joking around with journalists and he seems much more at ease, especially if they allow him to speak his native language rather than English. At first glance - going by available youtube material and a quick first search, I admit - he seems to rely on pre-written statements when speaking English and only speak spontaneously in German. He seems much more selfconfident when he speaks German.

He also has very soft, gentle and almost childlike body language, playful and innocent in a way.

Going by vibe, I see neither Ni nor Te in him, not one bit.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I don't get his lovelife though. Was it maybe a form of escapism for him? Being a rather carefree INTP, I am unlikely to fully understand the pressure he was under being in his position, so it might just be that. But I'd never allow myself to falter that much in romance.

Then again, it's not like I'm succeeding well either in that department. But at the very least there have been proper beginnings and ends to my relationships.

 

[the state i am in]

enfp 7w6 sx/so. definite 7. definite Ne dom.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

Einstein is my ex. He has no dick that's why we broke up

 

[meowington]

In Gulenko's system, Types use the the introverted or extroverted counterpart of their secondary/auxiliary function at "long range." So for instance, an LII, while having auxiliary Ne, would be said to use Ni to some extent. Ne would be strongest at "close range," not necessarily as obvious in the LII at a greater distance (figuratively). Note in the diagram below how Ni occupies the "optimum" column for the TiNe/LII type. Don't mistake this to mean Ni is as strong as Ne for the LII type, just that it plays an important role that must not be downplayed or discarded. Personally, I don't think that strong usage of one function precludes a decent use of its introverted/extroverted counterpart; I say this as the debate seems to be moving to Ne or Ni in Einstein's case.

Will have to look up Gulenko. *takes notes*

That is one weird schematic btw Where does that come from ?

edit : got it : socionics unfamiliar territory.

 

[sophiabrown]

There's a fundamental problem with pulling out sinsular quotes to prove a point. It's going to require much more than a couple of sayings to claim that his thought process is INFJ rather than INTP. None of what you pulled out necessarily disproves INTP unless you're solely going off of stereotypes. Also, you've ignored the other functions within INTP, focusing on only Ti to try and prove your point.

1. How does this point to INFJ? Why does this necessarily go against INTP? They can't be dreamy or idealistic? They still use high Ne...
2. Again, Einstein was creative. He put value on what we don't yet know and could know rather than all we know now. This doesn't disprove Ne. Ti actually helps prompt him to use his creativity (Ne) to try and fully understand how the world works beyond our current knowledge.
3. That's just being a good person. Also, couldn't you twist this around to say this actually exemplified Fi usage? Fe may be more prone to understand social standing and treat people according to it. Also, him being inferior Fe doesn't mean he's callous.
4. That's a TV show, so this entire point is moot. Did that even happen in real life?
5. Speaking in metaphors is a great example of high Ne usage. Which INTPs have.

 

[Gabe_2]

I believe John Beebe hypothesized INTJ for Einstein. There's probably an article out there somewhere