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  1. #51
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I'm not too sure what the name of the song was that he was playing when I came in, but whatever it was, he was really stinking it up. He was putting all these dumb, show-offy ripples in the high notes, and a lot of other very tricky stuff that gives me a pain in the ass. You should've heard the crowd, though, when he was finished. You would've puked. They went mad. *They were exactly the same morons that laugh like hyenas in the movies at stuff that isn't funny.* I swear to God, if I were a piano player or an actor or something and all those dopes thought I was terrific, I'd hate it. I wouldn't even want them to clap for me. *People always clap for the wrong things*

    If I were a piano player, I'd play it in the goddamn closet.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  2. #52
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    One thing that struck me as funny though, was that my friend defended a number of Holden's character flaws by saying "he's only seventeen". I said, "yeah?..."
    I was eighteen when I read the book, and I could tell you I was more mature than Holden when I was fifteen...
    I tend to not identify with people.

    I read this book for the second time at 16 -- I can't really count the first time because I was too young. But even so, I do not identify with him.

    It's more disgust and pity towards the character I feel. But mostly... pity. And it's not easy to earn my pity.

    And CaptainChick, if it pleases, will you tell me what the Hell you're doing?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #53
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Lol, I am prepping. I am going to analyze those in a sec.

    And lol, my close friend in high school couldn't stand Holden and neither could my English teacher.

    The truth is this, there is in fact a select few of us human beings who are, for reasons unknown, genetically predisposed and hard-wired towards being empathetic idealists.

    Sensitive souls do not fare well in this cold, industrialized, bureaucratic, super colony we call modern civilization.

    When you actually care about people and things, and the inherent fucked-upness and seemingly endless human suffering deeply lodged and integrated in a society that basically functions and operates on dissociating its people from one and other into foreign and discrete factions in order for designated people to exploit "other" designated people strictly for selfish gain from just far enough of a distance so as to not affect everyone's ability to sleep at night, well, when you care in a system that cares not for you or anything really, that is, to say the very least, incredibly difficult to bite, swallow and chew.

    Tangent, sorry :/
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #54
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I strenously object to the notion that I do not have empathy, ideals, or an awareness of how much is wrong in the world, just because I despise Holden Caulfield. His conceit and his inability to critical analyze his own personality (and largely that of others, to tell you the truth) is one of the things I dislike about him. It has little to do with him being empathic or idealistic.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  5. #55
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Oy vey, you just love jumping to (false) conclusions, doncha MP!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #56
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Holden Caufield is stuck in an infinite loop. He does not know enough to get out, and he does not know how he got in -- in fact, he does not know he's stuck at all. And yet, there he is, slowly losing everything, intensely aware of every stinging pain yet oblivious to those he inflicts on others...

    There is a time to cry, and there is a time to at least try to pick one's self up. All he's succeeds in doing is hurting himself and systematically locking himself in further.

    He has two exits: maturity, or death. By the fact that he ends up in therapy, the best part of it is that he ends up with the better exit... but then again, you never know.

    There is no sign of anything gained when he's telling the story. He just says that he ends up sick and in therapy... there are no embellishments to the story to give the impression that he's learned anything. So, I cannot help but pity him.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #57
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I tend to think of him maybe as an INFP, but I hear what everyone's saying..
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  8. #58
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Any more thoughts?

    CaptainChick, any chance that you'd want to continue that exploration?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #59
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Any more thoughts?

    CaptainChick, any chance that you'd want to continue that exploration?
    What about your thoughts, Cimarron?

    My thoughts are already splattered all over this thread like blown out brains on a Jackson Pollock painting. I don't believe it needs any more.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #60
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Yes, I was looking for new input. You've contributed quite a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I suppose if one takes him to be a reliable narrator, he's Fi, but if he's unreliable, he's totally, totally, totally bad Fe. Depends on interpretation.
    I almost mentioned this in my last post. I thought this was a good observation, and yet CaptainChick's post reminded me that the narration seemed "honest." At least Holden seemed to be as honest with himself as he could, limited maybe by his ability to understand himself and his own motives.

    People are making some good points on all sides.

    I was thinking maybe ISFP, but that would concede to Fi being the stronger factor, and that debate wasn't quite closed.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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