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  1. #11
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Holden Caufield is pure bad Fe. Not a drop of Fi in 'im.
    The thing he hates most about people is when they're phoney. That's very Fi. I can't see much Fe in him at all. Could you give examples to back up your mystifying assertions?

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    The thing he hates most about people is when they're phoney. I can't see much Fe in him at all. Could you give examples to back up your mystifying assertions?
    He believes them to be phoney purely because of the way they act. He doesn't give consideration at all as to what's within them, except for Phoebe and that one girl, and even then his assertions are shallow...

    I suppose if one takes him to be a reliable narrator, he's Fi, but if he's unreliable, he's totally, totally, totally bad Fe. Depends on interpretation.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I haven't quite figured out any of the four letters yet, but I have determined that he is some kind of anoying bitch.

    Enneagram-wise... almost surely a Four.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #14
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    He believes them to be phoney purely because of the way they act. He doesn't give consideration at all as to what's within them, except for Phoebe and that one girl, and even then his assertions are shallow...
    I haven't read the book in a few years, so I can't treat this assertion with the crossreferenced disrespect that I'm pretty sure it deserves. But surely you can't call someone "phoney" without giving consideration to what's really within them? Since phoneyness is when the appearance doesn't seem to match the (internal) substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I suppose if one takes him to be a reliable narrator, he's Fi, but if he's unreliable, he's totally, totally, totally bad Fe. Depends on interpretation.
    Tell me about this bad Fe then.

  5. #15
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I haven't quite figured out any of the four letters yet, but I have determined that he is some kind of anoying bitch.

    Enneagram-wise... almost surely a Four.
    Caufield's MBTI Type: BRAT
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #16
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I haven't read the book in a few years, so I can't treat this assertion with the crossreferenced disrespect that I'm pretty sure it deserves. But surely you can't call someone "phoney" without giving consideration to what's really within them? Since phoneyness is when the appearance doesn't seem to match the (internal) substance.
    But the point of the book is that this is exactly what he DOES.

    The way he defines 'real' and 'phoney' are completely arbitrary and shallow. He has absolutely no acceptance for the fact that this is simply 'what people do' not for a defined moral reason but simply BECAUSE it is 'what people do.'

    If he had had well-developed principles and complained about how they didn't match up to reality, then I would support the argument of him being an INFP, but he doesn't. The only way I can justify this negative thing being so much a part of his nature is if it were anima. It's obviously extroverted (and I couldn't imagine him as an ETJ), so he's some kind of ITP, and his antics were a lot more S than N, so ISTP.

    And I just read the book a few months ago. This sort of thing is still relatively fresh in my mind...

    An ISTP E4 is an unusual combination, but still possible, I suppose.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #17
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    Holden's objections to people tends to be a clash of values. This lends itself to INFP. Would an ISTP really smash every window in the house if they were angry? Also, is ISTP really the type to run away from school?
    4w5 sp

  8. #18
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    HH: I disagree with everything you just said, but I'll have to reread the book so I can remember exactly why I'm coming from where I'm coming from. Don't forget, however, that he's young and immature. I think that's where a lot of your confusion is coming from. And though I haven't read the book recently, I've read it about 4 or 5 times.

  9. #19
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamiteninja View Post
    Would an ISTP really smash every window in the house if they were angry? Also, is ISTP really the type to run away from school?
    ...yes.

    JJJ: My interpretations have no mercy. And why would he being 'young and immature' confuse me?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #20
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    And why would he being 'young and immature' confuse me?
    Because this is quite common in immature Fi in my experience (especially the bolded):

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The way he defines 'real' and 'phoney' are completely arbitrary and shallow. He has absolutely no acceptance for the fact that this is simply 'what people do' not for a defined moral reason but simply BECAUSE it is 'what people do.'
    Yet you're taking it as evidence that he isn't an Fi user.

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