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The Joker (the Dark Knight)

Prototype

THREADKILLER
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
855
MBTI Type
Why?
You feel like sharing with the rest of the class how your arrived upon those conclusions?

Because the Joker is Batmans alter-ego!

Batman has very good use of N, cause he is always one step ahead of the scum.

The Joker is an unpredictable J, and is clever enough to get away with his schemes.
 

Prototype

THREADKILLER
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
855
MBTI Type
Why?
I definitely feel Batman is an F, he is too pasionate in his persuits and values not to be IMO. And INFJ is definitely a reasonable thought to me...

Batman is not an F, and his crime fighting is actually is due to his OCD, amongst other mental issues... Batman his a very messed up character!
 

relentless

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
17
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entj
Enneagram
3
Because the Joker is Batmans alter-ego!

Batman has very good use of N, cause he is always one step ahead of the scum.

The Joker is an unpredictable J, and is clever enough to get away with his schemes.

what do u mean about joker being batman's alter ego?:huh:
batman is bruce wane's alter ego.

the way I see it is that joker is the oppersit to batman, batman brings order from caose (would be istj or estj). joker (who seems very entp) brings caose form order (this is like one of the main theams of the movie).
This does not make joker batman's alter ego

in fact i would possably type Bruce as infp, as batman, his shadow, is estj (batman is all about bruce's dark side, his fears and insecurities, seems like a metaphore for his subconcious to me!:yes: )

Watch the part of batman begins where bruce tells us why he choose a bat to represent him.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Since this is one of the rare movies I actually watched I will add my 2 cents.


I am going with ENTJ for Joker.


And here is why.


The guy is crazy that is too obvious. But is he really random ?
I think not.

He talks about "chaos, anarchy and bla bla bla" quite a bit. What makes him look like a Ne dom but his actions are showing something else entirely.


When he and his gang were robbing the bank at the beginning you can clearly see how he plans everything and how his mind actually works. Plus stilling money is a quite Se thing to do.

When he showed up on a meeting with mafia he had planty of explosives with him so he can "blackmail" them.
In all the sceens that involve him and mafia he is has something planned just so he can have a clear advantage over them.


When he blew up a hospital he know how and when to do it. All the hostage situations he created were also planned down to a detail. Plus he has a gang to help him about those.

He is crazy and "playful" but his not random as he likes to present himself. Since that is only his image. (and ENTJs do alot of things just to preserve their image)


While his true goal is fulfiling his vision. Which is Gotham in a complete chaos. (what is Ni - Fi in a terms of MBTI)
So when you take a look at all of this you will realize that there is master plan going on. And the fact that people seem to miss it is exactly what makes it a master plan.



I mean people obviously don't seem to realize that just because someone is creating a mess that the person can be a J a the same time. The real question here is "How do you raise hell?" instead of "Do you rise hell?"


So my vote goes to ENTJ.
 

Benny

New member
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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
154
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ISTP
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8w7
I agree that the Joker is an ENTJ. I don't see P at all. He is way too in control and calculating. It is true obviously that he causes a lot of chaos, but he himself is not chaotic.

Batman/Bruce wayne is ISTJ. He is seclusive(I), represents order and justice(SJ), and tough minded(T).
 

Space_Oddity

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Oct 12, 2009
Messages
359
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CAT
Instinctual Variant
so
I think it isn't really possible to type insane characters because one never knows if they're typing the character or their insanity. I would say, though, that Joker is essentially a planner who behaves like a perceiver due to his madness. He's an awesome manipulator who always thinks ahead and can very well foresee where the situation will lead, which is definitely a Ni think. His way of planning is very similar for example to Lelouch in Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (Japanese anime), who is the quasi-archetypal INTJ. It's also why the Joker has so much advantage over Batman, an ISTJ who completely lacks the 'foresight' of Ni.

Therefore, my guess is that the Joker is an ENTJ who went bonkers and took up shadow qualities of an ENTP. I think it's very important for the story that Joker is both an ENTJ and an ENTP in a way, because his Ni is in sharp contrast to Batman's Si and his chaotic qualities of Ne as well.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
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5,152
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EsTP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Batman is not an F,!

Yes! Batman follow objectives principles above all, and almost never let his feelings move him away from that guideline for behavior. That's T, not F.
 

Valuable_Money

New member
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Jun 19, 2009
Messages
679
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ENTP
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5w6
Since this is one of the rare movies I actually watched I will add my 2 cents.


I am going with ENTJ for Joker.


And here is why.


The guy is crazy that is too obvious. But is he really random ?
I think not.

He talks about "chaos, anarchy and bla bla bla" quite a bit. What makes him look like a Ne dom but his actions are showing something else entirely.


When he and his gang were robbing the bank at the beginning you can clearly see how he plans everything and how his mind actually works. Plus stilling money is a quite Se thing to do.

When he showed up on a meeting with mafia he had planty of explosives with him so he can "blackmail" them.
In all the sceens that involve him and mafia he is has something planned just so he can have a clear advantage over them.


When he blew up a hospital he know how and when to do it. All the hostage situations he created were also planned down to a detail. Plus he has a gang to help him about those.

He is crazy and "playful" but his not random as he likes to present himself. Since that is only his image. (and ENTJs do alot of things just to preserve their image)


While his true goal is fulfiling his vision. Which is Gotham in a complete chaos. (what is Ni - Fi in a terms of MBTI)
So when you take a look at all of this you will realize that there is master plan going on. And the fact that people seem to miss it is exactly what makes it a master plan.



I mean people obviously don't seem to realize that just because someone is creating a mess that the person can be a J a the same time. The real question here is "How do you raise hell?" instead of "Do you rise hell?"


So my vote goes to ENTJ.


Im sorry but aside from the bank robbery which was planned with near omniscient attention to detail none of these plans are really that complex. Infact they can be summed up in about one sentence.

Mafia: "People with guns are going to be angry at me so ill threaten to blow them up."

The hospital cant really be spoken for since no one actualy knows how he did it, it was actualy a bit of a writer copout "Hes the joker, he can do that"

Hostages: "I dress the hostages as the clowns they shoot the clowns."

Also he doesnt seem to have any kind of ni -fi "vision" going on, hes just expressing hes hatred of the boring natural order of htings.(inferior Si)

YouTube - The Dark Knight - Hospital Scene (Two-Face and Joker) HQ

That video is the definition of inferior Si.
 

incubustribute

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
297
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Since this is one of the rare movies I actually watched I will add my 2 cents.


I am going with ENTJ for Joker.


And here is why.


The guy is crazy that is too obvious. But is he really random ?
I think not.

He talks about "chaos, anarchy and bla bla bla" quite a bit. What makes him look like a Ne dom but his actions are showing something else entirely.


When he and his gang were robbing the bank at the beginning you can clearly see how he plans everything and how his mind actually works. Plus stilling money is a quite Se thing to do.

When he showed up on a meeting with mafia he had planty of explosives with him so he can "blackmail" them.
In all the sceens that involve him and mafia he is has something planned just so he can have a clear advantage over them.


When he blew up a hospital he know how and when to do it. All the hostage situations he created were also planned down to a detail. Plus he has a gang to help him about those.

He is crazy and "playful" but his not random as he likes to present himself. Since that is only his image. (and ENTJs do alot of things just to preserve their image)


While his true goal is fulfiling his vision. Which is Gotham in a complete chaos. (what is Ni - Fi in a terms of MBTI)
So when you take a look at all of this you will realize that there is master plan going on. And the fact that people seem to miss it is exactly what makes it a master plan.



I mean people obviously don't seem to realize that just because someone is creating a mess that the person can be a J a the same time. The real question here is "How do you raise hell?" instead of "Do you rise hell?"


So my vote goes to ENTJ.

Man, I really really almost want to believe you here. This is very convincing. Now that you mention it, I do see tons of calculating Ni supporting something. Actually, there's a quote of him saying something along the lines of "You have to do eeeeeverything yourself!" This is typical ENTJ annoyance at incompetence. He does seem to have a very good intuitive grip on other people's emotions, to the point where he can predict them and plot accordingly (the jail cell scene). I think ENFJ may actually be possible, just with an Fe gone horribly wrong. But it still could be Fi. GAH! I was so sure of ENTP!
 

incubustribute

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
297
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Im sorry but aside from the bank robbery which was planned with near omniscient attention to detail none of these plans are really that complex. Infact they can be summed up in about one sentence.

Mafia: "People with guns are going to be angry at me so ill threaten to blow them up."

The hospital cant really be spoken for since no one actualy knows how he did it, it was actualy a bit of a writer copout "Hes the joker, he can do that"

Hostages: "I dress the hostages as the clowns they shoot the clowns."

Also he doesnt seem to have any kind of ni -fi "vision" going on, hes just expressing hes hatred of the boring natural order of htings.(inferior Si)

YouTube - The Dark Knight - Hospital Scene (Two-Face and Joker) HQ

That video is the definition of inferior Si.

Is it possible that he wants Batman (and Gotham) to think he is against planning and scheming, when in fact he does have internal motivations for such things?
 

DiscoBiscuit

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The funny thing about the joker is that he hated schemers, but was the greatest schemer of them all...
 

incubustribute

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
297
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Im sorry but aside from the bank robbery which was planned with near omniscient attention to detail none of these plans are really that complex. Infact they can be summed up in about one sentence.

Mafia: "People with guns are going to be angry at me so ill threaten to blow them up."

The hospital cant really be spoken for since no one actualy knows how he did it, it was actualy a bit of a writer copout "Hes the joker, he can do that"

Hostages: "I dress the hostages as the clowns they shoot the clowns."

Also he doesnt seem to have any kind of ni -fi "vision" going on, hes just expressing hes hatred of the boring natural order of htings.(inferior Si)

YouTube - The Dark Knight - Hospital Scene (Two-Face and Joker) HQ

That video is the definition of inferior Si.

dAMIT that is also a good argument. This P/J split is embarrassing!
 

Qre:us

New member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
Since this is one of the rare movies I actually watched I will add my 2 cents.


I am going with ENTJ for Joker.


Nah......


And here is why.


The guy is crazy that is too obvious. But is he really random ?
I think not.

ENTPs are not random when they have a goal in mind.

He talks about "chaos, anarchy and bla bla bla" quite a bit. What makes him look like a Ne dom but his actions are showing something else entirely.
When he and his gang were robbing the bank at the beginning you can clearly see how he plans everything and how his mind actually works.

ENTPs are great at planning in such a way as to maneuver people to do their work for them, from within the system, without the people even being aware of their part in it. It's more sneaky.

ENTJs maneuver people to do the work, period, and they're more likely to do it from outside the system, and are not as sneaky with maneuvering people.

It's the Fe-charm.

Plus stilling money is a quite Se thing to do.

Yeah, but, he didn't give two shits about the money. It wasn't about the money. He burned it in the end. This is one of the most obvious cases for ENTP versus ENTJ.....

An ENTP's end goal can very well be to just it stick to the system, to amuse themselves....and ENTJ's goal is much more external, practically-based, and, I can't see an ENTJ making all that elaborate plans and scheme just to prove that 'he can because people let him' - ENTP, on the other hand, very likely.

He is crazy and "playful" but his not random as he likes to present himself. Since that is only his image. (and ENTJs do alot of things just to preserve their image)

I'm really curious as to how you understand ENTP and randomness.

While his true goal is fulfiling his vision. Which is Gotham in a complete chaos. (what is Ni - Fi in a terms of MBTI)

He shows zero Fi to me.....there is no 'personal touch' to him, even the story of his scar and how he got it, became a running gag of switching it up, every time the story was retold.

So when you take a look at all of this you will realize that there is master plan going on. And the fact that people seem to miss it is exactly what makes it a master plan.

But, what was the master plan FOR? What did he want to achieve?

In this, lies the clarity of the crazy-ENTP bend versus crazy-ENTJ.


I mean people obviously don't seem to realize that just because someone is creating a mess that the person can be a J a the same time. The real question here is "How do you raise hell?" instead of "Do you rise hell?"

Nah, the question is the motive......"why did you raise hell?"

ENTP: Jus' cuz...to see if I could. [He's bored with the status quo....hence, the want for chaos]


So my vote goes to ENTJ.

ENTP gone whack.
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
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3,004
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ISFP
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9w1
Skill at planning has nothing to do with J/P, if everything points to him being ENTP except for his skill at planning, then Occam's razor says he's an ENTP that is good at planning.

He seems like a very reactive kind of a guy, sure he can plan well but he also tosses those plans aside on a whim.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
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ENTP
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7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yes Q's argument is good. Any ENTJ you see from the Joker is probably just from his Hollywooded super abilities. Some fictional characters will combine all the good things about different types...for instance, John Travolta's character in Get Shorty is clearly ESTP in some scenes and clearly ENTP in others; he gets the best of both worlds because he's not a real person.

But Joker is still incredibly ENTP. He had no real end goal; as Alfred pointed out, "Some men just want to watch the world burn." ENTPs will make calculated plans insofar as they can get something out of it (it's impossible to succeed at anything without SOME measure of planning), but this character just oozes psycho ENTP. All he wants to do is play games! He wants to generate new conditions and see what happens (as in the social experiment scene with the boats.) Pe-dom impulsiveness is really obvious here, I think.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Yeah, but, he didn't give two shits about the money. It wasn't about the money. He burned it in the end. This is one of the most obvious cases for ENTP versus ENTJ.....

I know (at least) one ENTJ who would burn the money if placed in the same situation...

Power has always been more fun than money.

Burning the money was the smartest thing the joker did. By showing that the rules didn't apply to him (he didn't care about money), he showed everyone how much power he really had.
 

Qre:us

New member
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Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
Skill at planning has nothing to do with J/P, if everything points to him being ENTP except for his skill at planning, then Occam's razor says he's an ENTP that is good at planning.

Yes. This. Thank you for that clarification. P does not equal lack of skill in planning.

When I'm serious about a plan, I have pretty much every possibility that is likely to arise, covered, by another aspect of the same plan, and so forth.


He seems like a very reactive kind of a guy, sure he can plan well but he also tosses those plans aside on a whim.

:yes:, there were a lot of moments of Ne screaming out of the Joker.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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ENTP
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7w6
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sx/so
I know (at least) one ENTJ who would burn the money if placed in the same situation...

Power has always been more fun than money.

Burning the money was the smartest thing the joker did. By showing that the rules didn't apply to him (he didn't care about money), he showed everyone how much power he really had.

Have you ever seen an ENTJ whose plan has failed, and who has to come up with a new approach on the spot? They're miserably bad at this. They characteristically melt down and flip their shit because there's no time to work out a new plan ahead of time.

The Joker takes it a challenge when plans get changed, and sometimes he'll change them arbitrarily just for the amusement and the rush he gets from discovering what happens in a new situation. It's very Ne. I don't really see much Te at all.
 
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