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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I am just bothered by Lucas' lack of "sensible logic."

    His movies are visually beautiful and coherent... but his characterizations and dialogue is pathetic -- in terms of articulating his ideas, he's about on the level of a sixth grader. For an INTP or similar type, function begets appearance: The movie would be put together a certain way, in order to serve a purpose. Instead, in his movies, visual style wins out over everything else. Usually an NT has a much more coherent vision (note the INTJ-like detachment of Kubrick or someone in that vein).
    I think George Lucas is an ISTP, for some of the reasons you mentioned. I think he is more concerned with visual impact and technical prowess than with any abstract vision. When he was younger, he was all about fast cars and he's a big time risk-taker, in the SP vein. Because risk feels good or may have a cool impact, not for any larger ideal. For SPs it's all about impact, not competency (I agree, an NT director wouldn't pay so little heed to any part of his project, i.e. writing). He likes shiny, new techniques but technique and variety are also high values for SPs. His creations are highly detailed visually, and often a lot is crammed into one shot. It's not just Star Wars. THX 1138 was also a lot of technique but weak in so many other areas. According to him, American Graffiti is about life as he knew it in his small town. Not N looking toward the future or creating different interpretations, but a faithful retelling. Lucas is a great storyteller in terms of sensory impact as SPs often are.

  2. #92
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    Keirsey is full of shit half of the time when he's describing temperament. The way he describes the SP temperament is more like Extraverted.

    Wanting to make an impact is Extraversion, not Sensing or Perceiving.

    Sensors would probably more likely make an impact in physical performance. iNtuitives make impact by expression of ideas. George Lucas is an iNtuitive.

    Risk-taking is due to a Perceiving preference, nothing to do with Sensing.

  3. #93
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    Wasn't thinking of Keirseyan temperament theory, but Berens temperament theory. According to Berens temperament theory, the core values of SPs are freedom to act and ability to make an impact. The core values of NTs are mastery and self-control, and knowledge and competence.

    He takes the ideas of others and creates compelling, sometimes beautiful film...that is physical performance. His main focus is on mechanical technique, looks and sound, making an immediate impact...that's all Extraverted Sensing. His "ideas" fall apart, he even includes story elements just so he can show them on screen. What logic there is to the Star Wars story is basic, rather unimaginative, and it is sometimes discarded at will. When he was a kid, he loved serial comics because of their visual impact, not the themes.

    His big risks aren't iNtuitive ones, they're concrete and action-oriented. The chances he takes are physical chances. His passion is camerawork, editing and effects. He thinks of himself as a filmmaker, not a director. He's more into camera tricks, According to a biography I saw of him, he wanted to be a race car driver until he almost killed himself.

    Looking over his wikipedia entry, how he got into filmmaking and what kind of filmmaking inspired him: the non-narrative elements of Film Form like color, light, movement, space, and time...emphasizing the unique dynamic quality of movement and kinetic energy inherent in moving film images....

    Where is the extraverted iNtuiting I assume you're seeing?

  4. #94
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    iNtuition is coming up with possibilities from perceptions. It's the foundation of imagination, which is formed from a combination of ideas (whether visual or verbal, conscious or subconscious). Everything is inspired from something. It is not possible to imagine from nothingness, but only from external sources of experience, some of which may be unconscious. To imagine what is described in a book, for example, one must know what things look at -- they must have at least the basic concrete data first.

    Inspiration is an iNtuitive function. Fantasy is an iNtuitive function. What Lucas did in Star Wars was clearly not from direct experience, but from a variety of different sources.

    Sensing function sees the details as they are or were.

    It does not matter whether or not it's an image or a word. What is concrete to the viewer is an abstraction to the creator. New ideas are simply a collection of old ideas.

  5. #95
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I'm not reading through it all, so forgive me if these have been mentioned. But famous NFs?

    -Lauren Graham (Gilmore Girls; ENFP; everyone claims, and she herself vouches, that her personality is essentially that of the character Lorelai.... who is ENFP, I am near certain)

    -Sandra Bullock -ENFX
    In That movie with Ben Affleck (suspect ENFJ, btw?) Forces of Nature, her character is ENFP and she herself is certainly ENFX.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #96
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    -Sandra Bullock -ENFX
    In That movie with Ben Affleck (suspect ENFJ, btw?) Forces of Nature, her character is ENFP and she herself is certainly ENFX.
    I never got the impression that Sandra was an N. She always seemed to be a tangible, hands-on, practical, easy-going gal. Not much "etherealness" about her. I'm not sure I agree with the "E" either, unless she is a very low-key E. I think I's with an FP factor can seem extroverted sometimes because they are casually comfortable with and enjoy other people.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #97
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    This site labels Sandra Bullock as an ENFP.

    Robin Williams is also listed as an ENFP. And I can go with this; from what I read about his childhood, he was rather unpopular and started developing imaginary playmates, as many NFs tend to.

    Stan Lee is probably an ENxP, too.

    Alice Cooper: ENFP

    Marilyn Manson: ENFJ

    Stephen King: INxJ

    Bill Watterson: INFJ

    Martin Scorsese: ENFJ

    Joss Whedon: INxP

  8. #98
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I never got the impression that Sandra was an N. She always seemed to be a tangible, hands-on, practical, easy-going gal. Not much "etherealness" about her. I'm not sure I agree with the "E" either, unless she is a very low-key E. I think I's with an FP factor can seem extroverted sometimes because they are casually comfortable with and enjoy other people.
    “If you went to go see 'While You Were Sleeping' or anything else, you wouldn't necessarily think that's me. Those who know me personally would say (Sarah) is me. 'Cause that is more me”
    -Sandra

    I found this quote here Sandra Bullock quotes
    (Note: "Sarah" I think is the ENFP I referenced.)

    (And this quote screams "P" "I'm ballsy on first instinct. In retrospect, I'm, Why did you do that?")


    I haven't in about half a decade, but when I was 15 I used to read all of her interviews; I was a huge fan.
    I definitely am still confident about her being an NF.

    Although you may have an argument with the E/I thing... especially since she's an actress. I'm not certain; I still think E though.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Marilyn Manson: ENFJ
    I was just talking about his type with friends the other day. We were debating INFJ/ENFJ. What makes you think he is extroverted? In the interviews I've seen, he strikes me as an introvert (somewhat shy and reserved, quiet and monotone speech, pauses to think before answering), but I'm open to arguments.

    (Incidentally, don't worry, NFJs - no matter what, he's not going on my list due to criterion 2, part 2 in the OP. )

    Edit: Check out this interview for instance. Do Es mumble and fade like that? I know he's on drugs *insert Ozzy joke* but still?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    What makes you think he is extroverted? In the interviews I've seen, he strikes me as an introvert (somewhat shy and reserved, quiet and monotone speech, pauses to think before answering), but I'm open to arguments.
    Yes. The stage presentation is just that -- a presentation. In RL, he seems to be much as you describe here.

    The INFJ "actors" I know personally enjoy playing roles other than themselves on stage. I hate it, I have trouble "being someone else," and feel very conspicuous and vulnerable; but it is like they feel safe because they're pretending to be someone else in public, it's fun to play the role and they can invest wildly in it, sometimes playing over-the-top characters. I don't think INFJ is a bad guess for him.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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