Sherlock Holmes (INTP) VS Batman (INTJ)

[bilbotook]

INTJ's and INTP's have long been rivals in the word of MBTI. Just as Batman and Sherlock Holmes (known to be the worlds greatest detectives) have long been rivals in the world of fiction. In fact Batman and Sherlock are the perfect example of the difference between INTJ's and INTP's.

Let's first look at the similarities. They are both amazingly brilliant and, as I have mentioned, the worlds greatest detectives. Their genius tends to repel most but seduce some. They both have ISFJ allies (Commissioner Gordon and John Watson that is) who detest parts of them, but still follow them. And they both prefer a more solitary environment. But that's about all.

Now let's get t the fun part. Batman devoted his ENTIRE life to Gotham City. He has to manage the life of a super wealthy CEO which is already so much responsibility on it's own. But he also has to juggle that with another life as a super hero who has to always be there. He works the day shift and the night shift and even during his free time he's not doing nothing. He's usually on the Bat computer of making something. He he even manages to squeeze in sleep time is beyond me. Something tells me he's learned to not nee sleep. Which I just can't imagine. His Ni mixed with his Te makes him hugely responsible and completely devoted to his worked. He's always doing SOMETHING. Sherlock on the other hand is almost the opposite. He prefers to just be thinking most of the time. Just pondering. The book says he'll go hours on end just sitting with his head deep in thought, Which shows his dominant Ti. And other times he'll be going super wild with his discoveries and cases and what not, showing an extremely obvious Ne. He enjoys a more quite life of living in a small flat that he doesn't even have to pay for because he once helped his land lady with a case. Speaking of which, he doesn't even except payment for the cases he solves because to him, it's all entertainment.

Batman uses the skills that were given to him to go out and make many things of them. Anywhere from learning almost every martial art, to inventing a who bunch of gadgets and sick rides. Batman made himself into something huge. Sherlock took his brilliant brain, and instead of using it to become rich and powerful like his INTJ brother Mycroft, he just basically uses it to do whatever the hell he wants. Batman care widely about each citizen of Gotham. Nothing passes without him noticing and dealing with it. Then theirs Sherlock who's main weakness is apathy. He has a really hard time thinking about others. The only real reason he stops crime, is so that he won't keep being bored. He just wants to keep "playing the game".

So their you have it. Please tell me what you think.

 

[star tripper]

Batman is an ISTJ. He makes trillions of plans for situations that might possibly happen, he's bound by a sense of duty, and he's procedural.

That said, I do agree with a lot of your analysis. It hammers down the difference between Ti and Te.

 

[kyuuei]

I believe I echoed the ISTJ point in a thread long ago somewhere deep in these archives. I can get on board with Holmes being an INTP for sure. That's not a really hard stream to cross at all.

The real main difference between Batman and Sherlock Holmes is Sherlock is way, way hotter than Batman.

 

[BadOctopus]

Well, this is just pointless, because no one can ever agree on either character's type.

Or which one is hotter. (In my opinion, Holmes.)

 

[star tripper]

Well, this is just pointless, because no one can ever agree on either character's type.

Or which one is hotter. (In my opinion, Holmes.)

I don't think it's necessarily pointless. Whether you agree on a character's fundamental type or not, you can still use a character to illustrate a function, which could theoretically help someone understand the functions.

Also, sorry if you get notifications of me liking and unliking your post repeatedly. I was trying to catch a flea on my iPad.

 

[bilbotook]

Si could have never learned all of the things Batman learned the way Ni could. As I said in the post, he learned almost every martial art. Also, while an ISTJ always follows protocol, Batman uses his own understanding making him an INTJ. BTW, Please tell me that you guys read the whole thing. My rational would make much more sense if you did.

 

[Studmuffin23]

Sherlock Holmes (at least the canonical version) is ENTJ. I suspect that Batman is as well.

 

[BadOctopus]

Sherlock Holmes (at least the canonical version) is ENTJ. I suspect that Batman is as well.

Sorry, but there's no way Holmes is an extrovert. He has a preference for quiet and solitude, and he absolutely needs to be alone at times. That's when he does his best thinking.

He also doesn't have the social skills or charisma of an ENTJ. Or the ambition, for that matter. In his own words, he is "the most incurably lazy devil that ever stood in shoe leather."

 

[great_bay]

Which version of Batman are we talking about? I use to read the comics and he always struck me as an intuitive.

 

[star tripper]

Which version of Batman are we talking about? I use to read the comics and he always struck me as an intuitive.

I'm referring to the comics.

Si could have never learned all of the things Batman learned the way Ni could. As I said in the post, he learned almost every martial art. Also, while an ISTJ always follows protocol, Batman uses his own understanding making him an INTJ. BTW, Please tell me that you guys read the whole thing. My rational would make much more sense if you did.

Why couldn't an ISTJ learn all the things Batman could? Let's look at the traits of Batman's that are consistent in nearly every comic since the '80s:

- he strictly follows his procedures
- he makes contingency plans for ludicrous hypotheticals
- he is compelled by a strong sense of duty that even overrides his self-preservation instincts
- he makes connections by running details by his personalized HIGHLY ESOTERIC database
- he is entirely motivated by an event from the past he can't get over

If those aren't Si stereotypes on steroids, I don't know what is.

Edit: But if you ignore his actual personality traits and look at Batman as a mere entity, you could pass him off as an example of an INTJ. He probably is one in the Nolan films anyway.

 

[star tripper]

Sorry, but there's no way Holmes is an extrovert. He has a preference for quiet and solitude, and he absolutely needs to be alone at times. That's when he does his best thinking.

He also doesn't have the social skills or charisma of an ENTJ. Or the ambition, for that matter. In his own words, he is "the most incurably lazy devil that ever stood in shoe leather."

I don't think this is the best way to type, but I agree he can't be an ENTJ. He most definitely uses Ti, Ne, and Si. He is literally drawing objective connections based on subjective past impressions and filtering his interpretation through his own personal logic.

 

[bilbotook]

Which version of Batman are we talking about? I use to read the comics and he always struck me as an intuitive.

Every version of Batman is an INTJ.

 

[star tripper]

Every version of Batman is an INTJ.

George Clooney's struck me as Te-dom, but I'd have to rewatch.

Which reminds me. Let me just leave this gem.

 

[bilbotook]

George Clooney's struck me as Te-dom, but I'd have to rewatch.

Which reminds me. Let me just leave this gem.

I prefer to forget about the Clooney Batman. And the Val Kilmer Batman for that matter.

 

[star tripper]

I prefer to forget about the Clooney Batman. And the Val Kilmer Batman for that matter.

Aww, that's no fun! Although I really can't blame you. I still see those Batnipples every time I close my eyes.

 

[Cygnus]

Batman is an ISTJ. He makes trillions of plans for situations that might possibly happen, he's bound by a sense of duty, and he's procedural.

That said, I do agree with a lot of your analysis. It hammers down the difference between Ti and Te.

Si could have never learned all of the things Batman learned the way Ni could. As I said in the post, he learned almost every martial art. Also, while an ISTJ always follows protocol, Batman uses his own understanding making him an INTJ. BTW, Please tell me that you guys read the whole thing. My rational would make much more sense if you did.

- he strictly follows his procedures
- he makes contingency plans for ludicrous hypotheticals
- he is compelled by a strong sense of duty that even overrides his self-preservation instincts
- he makes connections by running details by his personalized HIGHLY ESOTERIC database
- he is entirely motivated by an event from the past he can't get over

If those aren't Si stereotypes on steroids, I don't know what is.

Well if you take the MBTI ISTJ and compare it with SLI ISTp from Socionics, it has Te+, whereas INTJ (ILI INTp) has Te-.

Plus and Minus Elements

Te+ is more focused on following procedures and rules as well as active acquisition. Te- in the INTJs is more focused on disregarding any information or procedure that serves no immediate purpose or value.

Te- tends to fare better in situations where it must survive in the most adverse conditions possible, rather than active, progressive acquisition and management that Te+ tends to favor.

Te+, I think, is more responsible for the association of the ISTJ with rigid adherence to structure and procedure than we stereotypically associate with Si; Te-'s disregard of vestigial systems is often used to distinguish an INTJ.


What you said about "contingency plans for ludicrous hypotheticals" actually sounds most like Ni- associated with the Beta Quadra, while INTJ has Ni+, more focused on deliberate growth and progress into the future.
Ni- is about anticipating possible future threats and escaping them which may suggest Batman is a Beta rather than Gamma or Delta, likely LSI ISTj (ISTP in MBTI.)

 

[bilbotook]

Aww, that's no fun! Although I really can't blame you. I still see those Batnipples every time I close my eyes.

I'm laughing my head off right now.

 

[star tripper]

Well if you take the MBTI ISTJ and compare it with SLI ISTp from Socionics, it has Te+, whereas INTJ (ILI INTp) has Te-.

Te+ is more focused on following procedures and rules as well as active acquisition. Te- in the INTJs is more focused on disregarding any information or procedure that serves no immediate purpose or value.

Te- tends to fare better in situations where it must survive in the most adverse conditions possible, rather than active, progressive acquisition and management that Te+ tends to favor.

Te+, I think, is more responsible for the association of the ISTJ with rigid adherence to structure and procedure; Te-'s disregard of vestigial systems is often used to distinguish an INTJ.


What you said about "contingency plans for ludicrous hypotheticals" actually sounds most like Ni- associated with the Beta Quadra, while INTJ has Ni+, more focused on deliberate growth and progress into the future.
Ni- is about anticipating possible future threats and escaping them which may suggest Batman is a Beta rather than Gamma or Delta, likely LSI ISTj (ISTP in MBTI.)

Nah, contingency plans for ludicrous hypotheticals is, at least in MBTI, 100% associated with inferior Ne. Ne comes up with a bunch of ridiculous what-ifs in an Si-dom, so the Si-dom plans for these scenarios. Ni is much more honed. Ni users catch on to the one thing that is most definitely going to happen (hence the ridiculous stereotype that they're psychic) and plan accordingly. I don't necessarily have an opinion on his type, but Walter White's actions in the season 4 finale of Breaking Bad would be an example of Ni.

 

[Xander]

Moreso than usual, you cannot type Batman. He's acting based on trauma and that changes the expression of your type, sometimes radically.

Another thing, you make mention that both are highly intelligent, so you not think that brain power extends to type? If you have an ESTJ who is brilliant, don't you think they'd be able to build a decent level of intuition? What about feeling?

Homes, in canonical terms, is an INTP.

Btw how come no one questions why an INTJ would care so much about a city almost determined to self destruct? Seems a bit odd to miss that facet.

 

[bilbotook]

Moreso than usual, you cannot type Batman. He's acting based on trauma and that changes the expression of your type, sometimes radically.

Another thing, you make mention that both are highly intelligent, so you not think that brain power extends to type? If you have an ESTJ who is brilliant, don't you think they'd be able to build a decent level of intuition? What about feeling?

Homes, in canonical terms, is an INTP.

Btw how come no one questions why an INTJ would care so much about a city almost determined to self destruct? Seems a bit odd to miss that facet.

I don't think it's right to stereotype INTJ's as being evil or not in any way good. Actually, INTJ's have a very, very wide view of the world, because of their Ni, making them extremely concerned.