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  1. #31
    your resident asshole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    If he were it would explain some of the characteristics but it wouldn't explain how he lives by definitions that he's set himself.
    Huh? Could you explain what you mean by this and why it makes him not an ISTJ?

  2. #32
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    I presume you're referring to the way he classifies everything.
    I'm not. One of the things I am referring to is his extreme fondness for following a method. INTPs are not especially methodological; Te-users are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    You can't be an architect unless you can do inventories and specify things to a high degree.
    Doing inventories of things is Te, and specifying things is generally a sign of Sensing.

    I have no idea how anyone could possibly think that Sherlock Holmes as portrayed in the books is an INTP. He likes his logic, and that's about where the similarities end. He vibes nothing like a Ti-Ne type. INTPs are not known for abductive reasoning, they do not jump into physical fights, they do not craft and embark upon dangerous schemes, and they do not exude the kind of solidity, authoritativeness, and self-confidence that Sherlock Holmes exudes.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  3. #33
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Huh? Could you explain what you mean by this and why it makes him not an ISTJ?
    ISTJs seem to adopt systems they believe to be sound rather than create their own, except by interlocking all of the systems they find worthy. The ISTJ examples I have known are more about finding what works than creating something which works for them. Note I do not want to take some line about S types not being inventive or creative, I'm just reporting what I've observed. Most examples I know do some kind of creative activity but their techniques are efforts to emulate one which already exists and works rather than branching out into the unknown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I'm not. One of the things I am referring to is his extreme fondness for following a method. INTPs are not especially methodological; Te-users are.

    Doing inventories of things is Te, and specifying things is generally a sign of Sensing.

    I have no idea how anyone could possibly think that Sherlock Holmes as portrayed in the books is an INTP. He likes his logic, and that's about where the similarities end. He vibes nothing like a Ti-Ne type. INTPs are not known for abductive reasoning, they do not jump into physical fights, they do not craft and embark upon dangerous schemes, and they do not exude the kind of solidity, authoritativeness, and self-confidence that Sherlock Holmes exudes.
    Aside from the adventure, fights and danger (most probably aids to being entertaining which is the whole point of it) you should find yourself an older INTP. Young ones tend to be more defensive in every type. Even us INTPs have the capacity to relax and trust our own minds. Personally I'm often thought of as more of an ExxJ at work (not that they use such language) but it's more a case that I'm more confident in my observations and extrapolations hence I more freely extol their virtues...terribly arrogant of me.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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  4. #34
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    you should find yourself an older INTP.
    I have found myself several older INTPs, and none of them remind me in the least of Sherlock Holmes (which, coming from me, should be taken as a compliment), although I suspect most of them would like to be compared to him.

    Anyway, I don't know why you think I should find myself an older INTP. Are you trying to hook me up with someone? I don't date anyone over 35.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Young ones tend to be more defensive in every type.
    I don't think that's true. I once knew a girl who presumably had a personality, and on one occasion, she chose to sink her teeth into an individual's hand. She would never do that today, because she's gotten a little more protective of herself. She doesn't want to get some kind of blood disease or have her reputation spoiled by tales of people biting. There are lots of people out there who are just like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Even us INTPs have the capacity to relax
    Anyone can relax with a few Xanax (or Ex-lax, in its own way), and I think that Intuitives are probably a little more inclined toward pharmaceutical adventures than some other types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    trust our own minds.
    I'm sure INTPs can trust their own minds, but perhaps they really shouldn't do that. I would only recommend trusting the mind of an INFJ, which, incidentally, was not Sherlock Holmes's type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Personally I'm often thought of as more of an ExxJ at work
    But you don't work at a detective agency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    it's more a case that I'm more confident in my observations and extrapolations hence I more freely extol their virtues...terribly arrogant of me.
    Keep talking like that, and you're going to turn someone on. It won't be me, but I know some people really get hot when they hear that kind of talk, which is maybe what Sherlock Holmes was trying to do all the time. He never did get married, so maybe in his own way, he was trying to flirt with Watson. Of course, I always assume a fictional character is gay. The only exception to that is Dostoevsky's creations, because the man seems like too much of a Christian.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  5. #35
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
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    I think a case could be made that Holmes is an ISTP. His thought process is very linear and systematic, which seems to indicate Introverted Thinking. And he observes every tiny detail of his surroundings before forming his hypotheses. That could conceivably be seen as Extraverted Sensing.

    But personally, I don't really care what type Holmes is. He's just cool.

  6. #36
    Member star tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    I think a case could be made that Holmes is an ISTP. His thought process is very linear and systematic, which seems to indicate Introverted Thinking. And he observes every tiny detail of his surroundings before forming his hypotheses. That could conceivably be seen as Extraverted Sensing.

    But personally, I don't really care what type Holmes is. He's just cool.
    That's how I'd originally typed him, but my perspective shifted when I realized he was drawing objective connections between details based on his personal observations (which sounds definitionally to me like Ne-Si). I could still buy ISTP with the right argument, though. It would just require reinterpretation, I reckon.

  7. #37
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I have found myself several older INTPs, and none of them remind me in the least of Sherlock Holmes (which, coming from me, should be taken as a compliment), although I suspect most of them would like to be compared to him.
    To an INFJ, I yield the floor. I'll make no headway there and I understand that. What I'm never sure of is whether the typical INFJ understands it as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    Anyway, I don't know why you think I should find myself an older INTP. Are you trying to hook me up with someone? I don't date anyone over 35.
    I'm afraid the predilection with dating is yours alone in this case. My playful side was put on hold whilst I tried to sort my thinking out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I don't think that's true. I once knew a girl who presumably had a personality, and on one occasion, she chose to sink her teeth into an individual's hand. She would never do that today, because she's gotten a little more protective of herself. She doesn't want to get some kind of blood disease or have her reputation spoiled by tales of people biting. There are lots of people out there who are just like that.
    Most people attack because they feel vulnerable, the confident rarely feel so inclined.

    The best parallel is in dogs. Larger breeds tend to be less nervous and less prone to biting though if provoked they do far more damage. Small dogs seem to nip at everything that irks them. Small men have a rep for doing likewise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    Anyone can relax with a few Xanax (or Ex-lax, in its own way), and I think that Intuitives are probably a little more inclined toward pharmaceutical adventures than some other types.
    Anyone can relax. Personally I've no time for reliance on drugs for such things though that is in itself a contradiction on my part as I partake in nicotine and caffeine. I'd certainly never touch dope though and I don't drink alcohol except on rare occasions (ie one's where I feel like it which can be 6-18 months apart).
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I'm sure INTPs can trust their own minds, but perhaps they really shouldn't do that. I would only recommend trusting the mind of an INFJ, which, incidentally, was not Sherlock Holmes's type.
    A classic piece of INTP thinking is to think that there's a better solution if we can just figure it out (hence all the considering way past when most people have given up and gone off to the next thing). As for INFJs, I can't trust them. I find it hard to trust any person who's motivations are so buried I need an archaeologist to figure them out. Give me a 'slap in the face' and 'here's what I really think' ENFJ powerhouse any day. I know where I am then, no second guessing or psychic chicanery needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    But you don't work at a detective agency.
    Very astute. However, the skills are applicable in many circumstances and as such I am not devoid of interest and competence in them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    Keep talking like that, and you're going to turn someone on. It won't be me, but I know some people really get hot when they hear that kind of talk, which is maybe what Sherlock Holmes was trying to do all the time. He never did get married, so maybe in his own way, he was trying to flirt with Watson. Of course, I always assume a fictional character is gay. The only exception to that is Dostoevsky's creations, because the man seems like too much of a Christian.
    I was being deliberately overly honest in an attempt to show a situation with no agenda. I can see that didn't come across well enough.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #38
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Anyone can relax. Personally I've no time for reliance on drugs for such things though that is in itself a contradiction on my part as I partake in nicotine and caffeine. I'd certainly never touch dope though and I don't drink alcohol except on rare occasions (ie one's where I feel like it which can be 6-18 months apart).
    I think you should get yourself a heap of marijuana and smoke it right up. They're making it legal all over the place now. It's a sign of the times, a real sign of the times. Oh, and incidentally, Sherlock Holmes was a user of crack cocaine. He would stick it right in his arm. And for those who think I am making that up, I direct you to the Wikipedia article for the legendary detective, where his fondness for the white powder is described in detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    As for INFJs, I can't trust them. I find it hard to trust any person who's motivations are so buried I need an archaeologist to figure them out.
    If you can't trust an INFJ, then you may instead think of me as a Savior trying to rescue you from a terrible thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Very astute. However, the skills are applicable in many circumstances and as such I am not devoid of interest and competence in them.
    Foot cream is also applicable in many circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    I was being deliberately overly honest in an attempt to show a situation with no agenda. I can see that didn't come across well enough.
    Oh no, it came across wonderfully. I was just making my move in this game of conversational chess. I think of everything as chess, because that's dramatic.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #39
    just some guy bilbotook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I presume you're referring to the way he classifies everything. That would be Ti. The thing is that usually it's done away from external perceptions but that wouldn't work for entertainment and so Holmes has to keep explaining and voicing his inner thoughts, hence you see the classifications. INTP does work like that we are definers of words, concepts and frameworks. You can't be an architect unless you can do inventories and specify things to a high degree.
    Here's one thing you and I agree on. Let's ignore all of the other things we disagree on.
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  10. #40
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I was just making my move in this game of conversational chess. I think of everything as chess, because that's dramatic.
    Chess.

    Dramatic.

    Errm...


    Nope, no idea what you're on about now. You've just pitched from the esoteric thinking to painting with a dead chicken and some oxo.

    :P

    Of course the really controversial bit of Holmes was the opiates though I don't think it was as much of a "thing" when the stories were released as it is now.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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