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Thread: Hitler Analysis

  1. #111
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Okay, just some quick collecting of thoughts here:

    Is Fe necessary to want to impose ones views on others?
    Is Fe necessary to have a sense of respect and obligation for others' values?

    Hitler did the first one a lot, and he didn't really do the second one at all. So what does this say about him?

    (honestly, this question is kind of rhetorical, but I want to see what everyones' answer is)
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  2. #112

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    I think some people are giving too much credit to an upstart retard (ESFJ) with a taste for malicious rhetoric. Other agencies were at work, the Lions (ESTP) riding on Bulls (ESTJ).
    Freud is 80% fraud, all except the E for Ego
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  3. #113
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Is Fe necessary to want to impose ones views on others?
    Is Fe necessary to have a sense of respect and obligation for others' values?
    No and no. At least not Fe as one of the two dominant functions.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  4. #114
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    Heil, everybody (just joking)
    I am a newcomer to psychological analysis matters, and I must admit not out of pure scientific interest, but for completely practical purposes. In the context of my business ambitions, I am trying to obtain some practical utilisation of business psychology.
    Since last year, the Jung typology with the MBTI tests, socionics, enneatypes and other classification systems have come to my attention. I also read some criticism on these classifications, about being flawed et c. However, the controversial results from attempts to classify extreme cases like Adolf Hitler reveal a serious handicap of these methods, namely the ommission of the character's moral evaluation.
    The aforementioned classification systems seem to me not exactly flawed, but kind of "flat". Indeed, if you look at the descriptions of the 16 (or so) human types emerging from the classifications, they are labeled as "inspectors", "helpers", "asserters" and other acceptable identities. I didn't see any "crooks", "robbers", "bribers" et c. So, the individual's ethics and moral attitudes seemingly remain unexamined, only the intellectual side seems to be taken into account, and in conjunction with IQ tests portray an important part of the subject's profile. They seem to tackle relatively "averagely" behaving people, but seem a bit lost when dealing with so extensive moral deviations, like Hitler's. These gross deviations make it uncertain in which of the conventional subtypes the subject would fall (since he cannot be formally tested posthumously). Of course statistic tendencies of the various subtypes' moral qualities may be extracted, but these don't help -and indeed may do unjustice- on an individual basis.
    There are leaders who would ruthlessly exterminate half of the humankind in order to protect their favourite political system, but wouldn't touch a penny, and others who would fill their Swiss bank accounts with anything they could lay their hands on.
    So, human characters may have to be plotted not against a "flat" matrix like 4^2=16, but against a 3-dimensional grid with maybe 80 possible types, to take into account moral qualities such as humanism, honesty, benevolence etc, as well as the intellectual ones. This is perhaps even more important, as far as business psychology is concerned.
    On the practical side, does anybody know of any handy assessment techniques that estimate roughly a person's character, without alerting him that he's being tested (probably including behavioral elements, body language etc)? When you want to evaluate potential partners, you'd neither have the luxury to pass them through a full-scale test with all whistles and bells, nor carry a psychologist in your pocket to consult. I looked for relevant material on the Internet, but was unable to locate anything more than the typical full online tests.
    Thank you for your time

    Nick S., ENTJ (Field marshal, or should I say Oberstgruppenführer?)

  5. #115
    Junior Member unconvinced's Avatar
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    i think hitler was probably an EST?

    the problem with typing hitler is that people base his personality all on the image we have of him now looking back, which is highly error prone.

    i read a biography about the mitford sisters, and hitler featured very largely in it. the firsthand image they portray of him is shockingly different from that we are given today. he seemed to have been a lot more like george w. bush in person, than ADOLF HITLER THE MONSTER.

    what we all forget (or never knew) is that he was loved and admired by all of the elites and socialites around the world at that time. they all thought he was charming and delightful. after 1944, they all may have acted like they always knew he was a monster but it isn't true, that 180 was mostly self-preservation on their parts. even churchill liked him on personal level before WW2--so there was something about his personality that we can't see now, that has been excised from the official history books because it is not in keeping with his image as a monster.

    the mitfords were very witty and gregarious; they were allegergic to boredom and stuffiness, there is no way they would have hung out with an "I." some of us I's can be social but none of us have the ability to be entertaining in the way the mitfords describe hitler as having been with them--i think he had to have been an E (at a time when the western world as whole was more I-ish than it is now, so maybe E's from then would seem more I-ish to us).

    i think this also points to him not being an infj or an intj--both are hard to get to know and most people don't really like them at first, or aren't really sure what to make of them when they only know them casually. and infp's tend to be too unassuming to impress right off the bat the way he did.

    his views on the treaty of versailles, the jews, aryan supremacy and rebuilding the german empire/the rebirth of prussia, were not intuitive at the time, they were status quo--and not just in germany--his views were widely accepted in the US and England at the time too.

    intuition is marked by thoughts which seem at odds with facts and prevailing attitudes. intuitives stand out on the pages of history because they run in the face of accepted beliefs and dogma--think of newton, jenner, jefferson, darwin, einstein, ghandi. intuitives say things that seem crazy to their contemporaries, but seem like settled truth to succeeding generations. hitler was just the opposite--he said things that seemed like settled truth to his contemporaries but seem crazy to us. that is S-ishness distilled.

    as for the T/F and J/P, this is hardest for me to say because i think these are the least well defined traits in MBTI. a lot of what is used to explain these sounds very mumbo-jumbo-ish to me, but i would say that hitler seems to have been a systems thinker, which would probably make him TJ, or at the very least a T/something.

    every systems thinker throughout history, who applied his or her energies to people (instead of things), tried to engineer human affairs by equating humans with perfectible and disposable interchangeable components and society with an assembly line. and that's was what hitler did.

    i think this sort of thing is confused with idealism, because idealists often want to recreate the world and perfect human affairs too. but whereas idealists believe that people are great as they are, and that it is the institutions are the problem and what needs perfecting (or demolishing); systems thinkers on the other hand, view institutions as great but see people as the problem (at best) or worthless/beneath consideration (at worst). hitler wasn't an idealist, you can tell because systems thinkers always have to use power to "inspire", where as idealists only have to use words.

    without power to buttress it, the allure of the system's thinker's vision always collapses, but the power of an idealist's words lasts as long as the words are known or knowable. from what i've read and witnessed on boards like this and others, the biggest difference between F and T, is not rationality and emotionalism, it is how each views people (in a general sense, not individuals)--T's see people as inherently flawed, F's see people as inherently valuable.

    sorry this was so long
    to accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe--anatole france
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  6. #116
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    A strong personality

    Hitler is moved by the consciousness that he has a mission. He dreams of building and ruling an empire. He believes he has been chosen by destiny to unify the German people, to purify (cleanse) the race, to make it strong and give it the empire of the Earth. The illuminated mystical doctrine that drives Hitler must be very strong indeed for this former homeless beggar, not even a German citizen, to become absolute master and savior of Germany. The young man who failed at school and was considered to be incapable of perseverance has come a long way! But more than a mystic, he is above all a fanatic. The mixture of fanaticism and cunning that can be found in him make him superior to Roehm who is only violent, and Papen who is only deceitful. He knows how to wait to outwit the vigilance of his adversaries.

    When he sees the opportunity, he acts swiftly, forcibly. He uses frenzy and temper tantrums as a weapon. However, this does not prevent him from thinking, pondering, estimating chances. His political instinct is very real and will inspire him and bring him success more than once in the management of the war. Hitler is possessed. He could fool his political opponents for so long precisely because he actually lived the roles he was playing, with intensity, sincerity. His cleverness is the cunning and astuteness of a fanatic, who finds at all times the spot where to attack and that nothing can hold back once he has decided to take action. Since he is a visionary and a prophet, he must be convincing and he is. The foundation of his psychological power lies in the charismatic side of his personality. If what he imagines has sometimes nothing in common with reality, he is nevertheless capable of convincing others that there lies the truth. He often succeeded during his political career to make competent, lucid men believe they were wrong.

    A talented Speaker

    His voice had a unique tone, where the expressions of anxiety, faith, the spirit of resolve, the confidence of a clairvoyant, the madness and the logic harmonized themselves so perfectly, that he could use this magic charm to subdue a great country and a great people. He was able to talk to this people with an unmatched skill and talent, because he was himself the most radical expression of their own nostalgia, he shared their hopes and fears. One can talk of the mediumnic/visionary side of the nature of Hitler. He was the prophet who revealed to the masses a spirit or vision that was nothing else but theirs (their vision), even though they were not aware of it. At rest, he looks like a normal man: very common, very plain. But when he begins to speak (publicly), the metamorphosis is impressive. A mediocre man transforms itself into an important one. This splitting of the personality gives him a real power of fascination.



    His well-known talent as a public-speaker consists in a magnetic power that attracts ever bigger crowds. His suggestive power (almost erotic) manifests itself through the property of his eyes, the virtue of his gaze. Very few men can resist the power of those eyes and the fascination they produce. Furthermore, his hoarse and thundering voice and his argumentative logic do not fail to produce results when he starts his fiery monologues. Those who approached him near the end of his life noticed that his charisma was about to disappear. The gaze that we talked about earlier troubles the minds of his listeners, annihilates their judgment, destroys any sense of opposition or criticism. Hitler is a better than average psychologist who masters the art of conquering not only the masses (the crowd), but individual minds as well. With him it is not only a natural talent. He studied patiently the means that bring fame and command respect: words, gestures (movements of the hands), stance, posture, attitude. His speeches are lively, spirited, easy to understand. He has the gift to find formulas that establish a kind of mystic communication between him and the masses. Of all the popular speakers and simplificators of his time, he was the simplest and the most natural.

    An Actor

    Hitler is an actor, during all his life he plays various roles. He got a vast repertoire and goes with apparent ease from one role to the next (from comedy to tragedy). The outer layer of his nature, in its plasticity, allows him to assume many personalities (take on many identities). He could be a statesman among statesmen, a commander-in-chief for army generals, a charmer (seducer) for women, a father for the nation. He knows how to give his words an air of truth. He makes a clever use of numerous but superficial bits of knowledge and is served by a prodigious memory. He can delude the best of judges. He gives to superficial notions the aspect of detailed knowledge. He can fool even experts. Very experienced statesmen who have met him in several occasions would believe him to be a real statesman, and a trustworthy one. Top-rank military advisers would estimate that he is a man with whom they could talk, and refined and cultured national-socialists saw in him the social leader of the nation. For years, he didn't stop to con the other representatives at the negotiation table by a calculated, very strict statesman demeanor. He would put on a neat look, almost elegant. He was friendly and showed self-control. He knew well the topics of discussion. He was remarkably convincing as an interlocutor; especially during private meetings, where he would show dignity and frankness. He knew how to leave a strong impression. He answered questions very rapidly and gave the impression of the utmost sincerity. One could never emphasize enough his admirable talent as an actor. He plays all kinds of roles to perfection, so much so that experienced political leaders renowned for their astuteness and clearmindedness were fooled like the rest. Further, his talents as tragedian allowed him to create an impression of historical greatness; he knew how to give to unimportant words (platitudes, really) a pretense of importance and solemnity.

    A Tactician

    Hitler is very skillful at manoeuvering and a cunning tactician. For instance, he excels at getting rid of his rivals, especially the first among them: the journalist Karl Harrer, president of the first version of the National-Socialist party. He secures for himself a dominating place in the party. He is not afraid to resort to questionable means to get ahead. After having eliminated or pushed aside the former members of the ruling committee, he becomes the movement's undisputed leader. The time-period 1925-1929 was one of lean years and meager results for Hitler and the Nazi movement, but he persisted without ever losing hope or confidence. In spite of his particular temper and his fits of hysteria, he had enough patience to wait and was smart enough to understand that the climate of material prosperity did not serve his purpose. In 1925, there is not much left of the party. The Führer goes back to work. He stops the feuds, summons the followers and rebuilds the movement on more stable foundations. He gathers around him a team of young and dynamic people, who worship him and learn to follow orders. His influence grows, there is almost no resistance to his will anymore. In case of personal conflict or clashes between party members, he has always the last word. He is certain of victory (sooner or later) and make those around him share his belief. He learns to tame his own impulsive and excessive nature. The lessons of sad experiences and unfortunate mishaps are not lost to him. Granted, his biased views did not disappear, but he learned to use them. The prejudiced views even make up the basis of a whole ideology that makes him more popular than ever. Cold reckoner, he holds a fair amount of lucidity and astuteness. He does not waver from- or let go of the main lines of his policy and his racist dogmas. No doubt that he sometimes forgets several points of his political program and many solemnly made promises. But these are more a matter of demagogy than part of his basic political project. Thereupon, he never wavers. He gets out of desperate situations. When he feels supported, his self-confidence and belief in his destiny give him a dynamism and an all the way attitude that help him reach his goal. He needs to feel that things turn out his way, and be proven right by current events. He needs further the cheer of the crowd, powerful friendships or the devotion of the faithful to excel and go beyond his own mediocrity. He then displays all the energy, violence, cunning and cruelty that are in him.

    If his own interest requires it, all his declarations of indestructible friendship and undying gratitude are forgotten. He takes implacable revenge on those responsible for just about anything: a disappointment, an outrage, an insult or a defeat. Unscrupulous, he calculates coldly and moves his chess pieces systematically to eliminate all obstacles in his path. His willpower is boundless and to gain, keep or increase that power, he could do anything. Several times, he agrees to take enormous risks. He gambles and win. His many success in foreign politics would not have been possible if real statesmen would have opposed him vigorously. He knows how to find the vulnerable spot in his enemy's armour and to push his advantage right to the limit. He deludes the other side at the negotiating table with false hopes, chloroforming them so to say, before he operates on them and their countries deadly amputations. Just after his coming to power, he acts with a rare skill and swiftness. He reassures his suspecting allies by spectacular achievements, but at the same time he builds his dictatorship. All necessary decrees are taken in the six first months of power. His goal was to concentrate all power in his hand until the anticipated death of President Hindenburg. He used a genuine assault dynamics that shook the positions of his enemy blow by blow. The opposition forces being on a defensive stance had no chance to unite against him. They gave him all the opportunities to neutralize and destroy them. As a tactician, Hitler has always been afraid of the irrevocability of so-called final decisions. He never had at any moment a goal that he could state precisely or a real and clear strategy revealing what his intentions were. He had only visions and the power allowing him to grasp the possibilities offered by all kinds of situations, of which he would take advantage swiftly and forcibly. His sphere of activity would range from phantasmagories to carefully staged theatricals. In him can be found a mixture of tactician and visionary that does not care much about political programs.

    He encouraged rivalries among his collaborators (divide as a mean to rule) this would allow him to play the role of mediator. He separates the Party and the State. One had its head-office in Münich, the other in Berlin. Even inside the Party, there were rival organizations competing with one another. The unity of the whole lay in the person of Adolf Hitler. But the principle of scattering the authority shows a system and a leader that are much less sure of themselves than was apparent. Genghis Khan was strong enough not to resort to such tactics. Hitler's tactical virtuosity though is demonstrated in the way he breaks the army through the S.A. and the S.A. with the help of the army. He usually deceived his adversaries by playing a double game: he made them rise against -- and fight one another and weakened both sides by these clashes. Hitler refuses to be one of those who, by lack of energy, focus or persistence, go straight to failure. Rarely does he let himself be driven into a defensive position, he rather overwhelms the other side with a flood of aggressive and passionate words that leaves them nonplused and intimidated. He is gifted with an indisputable psychological 6th sense, he knows how to win over his listeners to his cause, in flattering their prejudgements and their pride, in appealing to their instincts, in suppressing their sense of criticism. His willpower is far above average. All that can be obtained through force of the will and fanaticism, he will get. Even his vices will help him a lot for a time. He believed that, with enough willpower and cunning, he could change even stop the course of history. For a long time, his success has been stunning, making him believe in his genius and infallibility. He even encourages the worship of his person. All is put in place to bring about this genuine idolatry. He builds one of the most powerful political party in history, rigorously structured, starting from the most mediocre and humble of the post-war period. He understood that the disappearing of revolutions on their insurrectional aspect was irrevocable. The revolution must be made legally, with the winning of elections. He had an interest in technical developments and his thought was resolutely modern. People showed him respect because he had succeeded in reestablishing law and order and reducing unemployment. Let's mention finally one of his most remarkable inventions: the discovery that the use of methods of war in politics could be applied to war itself, and that, in this sphere also, an absolute will of destruction and the concentration of all available forces on one spot will always bring success.

    HITLER
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  7. #117
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    what brainless idiot did get that no-use thread out of hell ....

    Thank you for that !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by tblood View Post

    [...] Hitler's tactical virtuosity though is demonstrated in the way he breaks the army through the S.A. and the S.A. with the help of the army. He usually deceived his adversaries by playing a double game: he made them rise against -- and fight one another and weakened both sides by these clashes.[...]
    I would also contrast SA with the SS (and no, that does not exactly stand for "Support Staff" The SS was extremely cruel -- it led the mass murder in the Third Reich. Its forerunner was the "Stosstrupp Hitler" which was founded in 1923. The task was to protect Adolf Hitler. From this unit the SS (Schutzstaffel) was formed in 1925 in the same time the SA existed. The SS would wear black uniforms and the SA brown uniforms. The SA leader was Ernst Roehm and he had own plans.

    The SS was disciplined and did everything what Adolf Hitler wanted; the SA was undisciplined and there were disputes between SA leaders and Adolf Hitler. Because of the discipline the SS was an elite unit. The SA was often called a "beater" troop. Communists, for instance, were brutally beaten by the SA -- you see, SA were like those sleazy cops that wandered all day (and night) long in the streets like dogs. Not the SS -- they were brutal, of course, but more systematic. While they would go out to do "field work," they did so on "special occassions" and when it was absolutely necessary (emphasis). The boss of the SS was Heinrich Himmler. Now you all have heard about Himmler -- systematic, rigid, controlled, and blocked of affect. His character structure was of the obsessive-compulsive schizoid type, meaning withdrawn emotionally from the external world and existing in a repressed internal psychic world. This guy liked very much indeed to write, damn it! -- he would use his diary to guard against feelings rather than to express them. The period 1919-22 was marked by acute identity diffusion. His sexual, social, vocational, and religious identities were in flux. The diary shows gender role confusion, a desire to emigrate from Germany, vacillation between animal husbandry and a bourgeois vocation, and strong conflict on the issue of dueling, which contravened his Roman Catholic faith. Oh, and BTW, the guy was fascinated by astrology and was a strong believer in the occult! Phew!

    Anyway, I am not going to make it look like Himmler and the SS were some kind of ridiculous group, for they clearly were not. By the way, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Theodor Eicke was resposible for the concentration camps and for the Totenkopfverbaende of the SS (skull troops of the SS). SS-Totenkopfverbände (Death's Head unit) as an elite within the elite structure of the SS. This concept grew from the fact that the most dangerous political enemies of the state were incarcerated in the concentration camps and Hitler had given sole responsibility for guarding and running the camps to the SS-Totenkopfverbände.

  9. #119
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    ENFJ

  10. #120
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    boooooooooooooooring

    go home Yankees !

    What does "Kriechenland" even mean @ sbaros

    Is it a practical joke ?

    Oder bist du der deutschen Sprache nicht mächtig ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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