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  1. #21
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I noted that I met him in person, and he came across as horrifically IJ (not P at all) in real life... regardless of what broad assumptions you want to make about his writing style.
    ^ and that's why I have learned to hate this site!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    Side note to not spoil Last Chronicles, plot wise.

    I agree about Linden totally; I do see elements of INFP in Covenant coupled with ISTJ/e6w5. Phobic 6w5 is right.

    Ps. I've met Donaldson. In person he comes across as Ni and J. I read him as INFJ. As an INP, I had more trouble connecting with him than expected.. not Ne savvy.
    You were right about Donaldson.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    TBH, in some ways Donaldson reverberates for me more than Tolkien. I just feel like the characters and cultures are explored more psychologically and are more real to me. There were deep-seated emotions and motivations and whatever else in them that I could connect with. And he really explored how the strengths and weaknesses of people were often mirror reflections and irrevocably intertwined; almost every huge loss in those stories comes because someone's strength is distorted and feeds into their weakness. He's a brutal writer.
    Same here. I find Tolkien two dimensional when it comes to characters. Plot, too. His gift is setting, and possibly themes.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  4. #24
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    I think it's silly to type Sauron, who has no personality in the movies to type. But you're right that ENTJ is overdone as a villain type (along with INTJ). I thought Foul was a typical ENTJ villain, but come to think of it, he has no NT in him at all, which is to say, he doesn't express any interest in Ni concepts. And his speech patterns match those of the ESTJ type. I had to research Rakoth Maugrim because I have no idea who that is.

    Bannor and all his people have exactly the same personality: ISTJ.
    Sauron actually is fleshed out a bit in the Silmarrilion and other writings. He was an early convert to Morgoth but could put on a facade to trick everyone.

    Sauron was a great and powerful Maia, serving Aule the Smith, who created the Dwarfs.

    Sauron loved order. After Morgoth was captured after the beginning of the elves, Sauron continued his programs, including breeding orcs.

    After Morgoth returned, he was his chief lieutenant and known for his illusions, shapeshifting, and cruelty.

    After Morgoth's defeat, he put on the pleasant form and again convinced the good guys he was sorry, but he didn't go get his pardon, out of shame.

    Tolkien wrote that Sauron was not fully evil. He just wanted his goals of being worshipped by men and ruling them. And he loved progress and development.

    He then put on a pleasant hue, seduce the Noldor smiths with his knowledge and power, thereby creating the rings of power. It is interesting to note he wanted dominion over others more than anything else.

    When the Numenoreans came to attack him in Mordor, he put on his beautiful hue and surrendered, eventually bringing about their downfall.

    Only after his body was destroyed in the destruction of Numenor did he lose the ability to put on a pleasing aspect.

    Overall, I think we have enough to type Sauron. Sauron does not appear to be a ENTJ.

    I do se him as a Je user. His chameleon nature and tremendous persuasion skills and desire to be worshipped and to dominate others seems to put him into Fe user territory.

    He seems to be Si (he repeats known plans in building forts and trying to conquer).

    His bringing down of Numenor seems like a FJ plan, not a TJ plan.

    I actually believe he is a very unhealthy ESFJ. His unfortunate tunnel vision and desire for domination tied his eternal existence into a simple ring and that was a very poor idea.
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    And I am not a hedgehog......

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    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    lol. Damn those ESFJs. Boo. Hiss. of course they are at the root of evil? Poor dears.


    .... anyway.... @Coriolis FINALLY I have been reading the LAST Chronicles of Covenant. Only partway through the second book. I have them all. It's just a matter of reading them. I think the Second Chronicles was the most brilliant/epic of them all, and least derivative.

    SOme of it has felt a bit stilted and Donaldson is overwriting like mad. Like, I don't need five pages of Linden mulling in circles in her head about how tortured she is over Jeremiah, when a few paragraphs would have sufficed. I think if the editors had dared to intervene, they could have cut his prose down by about 20%.

    But there's been some good scenes so far + also a sense of the old history of the Land coming into play. I'm currently to the part where "Linden meets a famous hero" in Book 2 and it's kind of interesting to see it in text of the contextual details rather than the epic songs that lose track of the real aspects of the people involved.

    Kind of sidetracked due to Nanowrimo + house buying but I hope to drop back in and burn through things shortly
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    lol. Damn those ESFJs. Boo. Hiss. of course they are at the root of evil? Poor dears.


    .... anyway.... @Coriolis FINALLY I have been reading the LAST Chronicles of Covenant. Only partway through the second book. I have them all. It's just a matter of reading them. I think the Second Chronicles was the most brilliant/epic of them all, and least derivative.

    SOme of it has felt a bit stilted and Donaldson is overwriting like mad. Like, I don't need five pages of Linden mulling in circles in her head about how tortured she is over Jeremiah, when a few paragraphs would have sufficed. I think if the editors had dared to intervene, they could have cut his prose down by about 20%.

    But there's been some good scenes so far + also a sense of the old history of the Land coming into play. I'm currently to the part where "Linden meets a famous hero" in Book 2 and it's kind of interesting to see it in text of the contextual details rather than the epic songs that lose track of the real aspects of the people involved.

    Kind of sidetracked due to Nanowrimo + house buying but I hope to drop back in and burn through things shortly
    Oh yeah! Hey @Totenkindly, I read that book about 10 years ago. It made no sense to me that the person in the Paradox of White Gold was really a she. "And he who wields white, wild magic gold is a paradox." My solution is to change "he" to "xe."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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