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When INFPs go bad: The Elusive INFP Villain in Fiction

erg

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I can't think of any right now. Perhaps Johann Liebhert from the anime Monster. The thing is that INFP's Fi prevents them from doing evil acts. For them to become evil, something serious must have happened to them. Something to corrupt their values.

EDIT: another INFP, Gaara from Naruto when he was still evil.
 
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entropie

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Shouldnt the question rather be: when infps do not go bad? :)
 

magpie

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Shattered idealism can push any Fi-dom to villainy. Also, self-righteous anger, e.g. the vigilante type, would alse be believable for an Fi-dom.

In other words, someone who was hurt and can't reconcile their world view with the way they were hurt. Fi values don't have to be about rainbows and love and happiness. Any INFP could develop a world view that supports and justifies "villainy."
 

Betty Blue

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Much as I love my INFP brethren... I also think INFP's can be self righteous and wait for someone to be down before having the courage to kick them... aka spite.
 

misfortuneteller

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i can imagine a villain of any type except for INxPs. i think it's cause we are too lazy to be villains.
 

Amargith

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Fi can be used as a weapon of the finest caliber if wielded 'correctly', so an INFP villain is certainly possible, given the right motivation.

That is true for any type - hit close enough to the very core of their survival (psychologically or physically), and make the threat real, and present.

Then watch them go nuts.

For TJ's it's often the feeling of unpredictability and loss of control that makes them go batshit and overcompensate by taking over the world in order to organize it properly
For TPs it's often a sense of wanting to watch the world burn around them for what it did to them, and seeing everyone else suffer for once (inferior Fe), or having their experiments and life's work taken from them or severly limited (NeTi)
For FPs it would be watching the world decay into a place where you're so surrounded by pain and misery, you cannot take it anymore and try to right all the wrongs you see - by being wrong yourself as its the only way to cut through the mess.

For most FPs, it can also just be more upclose and personal (you're inflicting damage on others in a way that I was damaged by those I trusted and couldnt stop, therefore I will annihilate you in self-defense and the defense of others - aka empathy gone bad through projection onto the person you relate most to)

In that regard, INFPs, with their Fi-dom and their inferior Te could very much get into an 'must teach the world right from wrong and make them adhere to my standard' rampage. Iow, follow the moral code or get eliminated (because there apparently is no saving you and you're poluting the universal pool of energy).

And the weapon of choice can either be something to cause actual death, but most likely, for INFPs, if they have mastered their Fi to the fullest, I'd say they just skin you alive emotionally, layer after layer, rubbing salt on the wounds as they go, til you're a quivering mess on the floor. And then, the rebuilding process can begin, to put you back together - if you are worth , salvaging, in their eyes.

Don't underestimate the desire to bring forth that idyllic world they crave in Fi-users - and to do the dirty work to get there if they're driven enough to despair and grew up in an environment that polarized their moral compass to be exceedingly black and white.

The rage and frustration that is created due to reality not matching the picture in their head of 'the way it should be because otherwise it feels wrong and hurts like hell' is like a volcano inside - especially if that reality gets progressively worse or 'fights back' in some way, when you attempt to affect it. At some point, something just clicks and goes 'alright, if you wanna fight dirty....let's!', vigilante style. The temptation to go there is pretty big considering the world we live in, at times :shrug:

Even worse is Fi-users that have given up all hope of working towards that idyllic picture. The pain and rage from that just makes them bitter and often sadistic in lashing out at others, who they blame for 'making them grow up and face fact'. And hell, if everyone is fuckign up the world anyone, why not just join them. Apparently, it's the thing to do.
 

erg

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And the weapon of choice can either be something to cause actual death, but most likely, for INFPs, if they have mastered their Fi to the fullest, I'd say they just skin you alive emotionally, layer after layer, rubbing salt on the wounds as they go, til you're a quivering mess on the floor. And then, the rebuilding process can begin, to put you back together - if you are worth , salvaging, in their eyes.

I have done this in the past.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Can a case be made for Carrie (Stephen King) as INFP or is she more INFJ? It's been a while since I watched the movie. She has a very gentle sensitive soul until hurt and humiliated. She is socially vulnerable and trusting and idealistic initially.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I've seen disillusioned Ji-doms create a complete split with reality so that in idea space their thoughts are inspired and deep, but in the real concrete realm they act out the opposite. The real and ideal selves become hopelessly dichotomized to the point they cannot acknowledge both without a complete deconstruction of self concept.

Charles Manson strikes me as a Ne dom but he had idealized justifications for his violence where he was setting their souls free and convinced others to actually carry it out. I'll try to think of some actual villains who have especially idealized motivations for their violence - although Fe could also act out similarly. I think the difference is that Fe would have a pragmatic 'end justifies the means' aspect whereas Fi would hold to a more philosophical ideal. Fe would kill the heretics because they lessen the social power of the church whereas Fi would kill them for violating a philosophical ideals of the religion. The inherently evil must die because of what they are. Of course these are oversimplifications, but they represent two poles.
 

Forever

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The inherently evil must die because of what they are.

Here's a philosophical question: Let's say you were born before Hitler and had the foreknowledge that he was going to the leader or one responsible to bring the deaths of millions of Jews, would you kill Hitler as a baby/child/young adult or right as he did the first indecent crime?

Please do not put practicality's sake in effect because I know that would heavily factor into the decision.
 

Firebird 8118

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Here's a philosophical question: Let's say you were born before Hitler and had the foreknowledge that he was going to the leader or one responsible to bring the deaths of millions of Jews, would you kill Hitler as a baby/child/young adult or right as he did the first indecent crime?

Please do not put practicality's sake in effect because I know that would heavily factor into the decision.

Instead of killing, couldn't we just brainwash baby Hitler to be Germany's Mahatma Gandhi? :D
 

Forever

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Instead of killing, couldn't we just brainwash baby Hitler to be Germany's Mahatma Gandhi? :D

Haha that would contradict their "inherently evil" nature which there is no way to prove so without the act of committing "evil"

so in fact if the approach was successful you could argue no serial killers or mass murderers were by and by inherently evil.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Here's a philosophical question: Let's say you were born before Hitler and had the foreknowledge that he was going to the leader or one responsible to bring the deaths of millions of Jews, would you kill Hitler as a baby/child/young adult or right as he did the first indecent crime? Please do not put practicality's sake in effect because I know that would heavily factor into the decision.
I would try to connect with him as a child to try to change the course of his character while also studying him closely to gain insight into how to bring him down at a later point.

Theres a Buddhist concept of 'not the same and not different' that is applied to flowers that reappear each spring or the face of a person as it moves through time. While he is not different person as a child he is also not the same person. I couldn't kill Hitler as a child because he is not morally the monster at that point in time. Also, I kill the relatively innocent child Adolf and who becomes Chancellor? Heinrich Himmler et al. Better to try to change the character of one sadist since there are plenty to replace him in such a sociological climate.

This is not to say I wouldn't assassinate a sadist if I had the means, but for me they would have to demonstrate that morale state of cruelty either in words or actions.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Haha that would contradict their "inherently evil" nature which there is no way to prove so without the act of committing "evil" so in fact if the approach was successful you could argue no serial killers or mass murderers were by and by inherently evil.
There are genetic predispositions for a lack of empathy and for aggression, but these only manifest as evil when environmental factors create rage that isn't processed correctly - there may be some exceptions to this, but I don't know that for certain. Have you heard of James Fallon's research on pro-social sociopaths? It's interesting.

There is not an absolute way to measure the degree of free will in a person. There is evidence it is limited in human beings. Because of this some humans may never stop being cruel and we can't say for certain how much choice they had. It's possible we are all observers of processes without choice and some are forced to observe the process of cruelty played out in their mind. Regardless of choice cruelty has to be stopped by ideally rehabilitation, then incarceration, and in my moral ideal I would be willing to end the life of a person who crosses the line of hopeless cruelty - even if philosophically they can't determine another course for their life. It's a sickness like a rabid dog, but orders or magnitude worse.
[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] How would you answer the child Hitler assassination question?
 

Forever

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I would try to connect with him as a child to try to change the course of his character while also studying him closely to gain insight into how to bring him down at a later point.

Theres a Buddhist concept of 'not the same and not different' that is applied to flowers that reappear each spring or the face of a person as it moves through time. While he is not different person as a child he is also not the same person. I couldn't kill Hitler as a child because he is not morally the monster at that point in time. Also, I kill the relatively innocent child Adolf and who becomes Chancellor? Heinrich Himmler et al. Better to try to change the character of one sadist since there are plenty to replace him in such a sociological climate.

This is not to say I wouldn't assassinate a sadist if I had the means, but for me they would have to demonstrate that morale state of cruelty either in words or actions.
I see. I see. So would you say Hitler was a different adult had you been there to have been a proper intermediary?

There are genetic predispositions for a lack of empathy and for aggression, but these only manifest as evil when environmental factors create rage that isn't processed correctly - there may be some exceptions to this, but I don't know that for certain. Have you heard of James Fallon's research on pro-social sociopaths? It's interesting.

There is not an absolute way to measure the degree of free will in a person. There is evidence it is limited in human beings. Because of this some humans may never stop being cruel and we can't say for certain how much choice they had. It's possible we are all observers of processes without choice and some are forced to observe the process of cruelty played out in their mind. Regardless of choice cruelty has to be stopped by ideally rehabilitation, then incarceration, and in my moral ideal I would be willing to end the life of a person who crosses the line of hopeless cruelty - even if philosophically they can't determine another course for their life. It's a sickness like a rabid dog, but orders or magnitude worse.
[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] How would you answer the child Hitler assassination question?
Huh, yeah that could make sense. I'm never one to put down a sick dog easily though without going through many possibilities of what the dog may have. Not that I'm judging your choice if you have been in those situations or you might have done the same as well. (We're still talking about the sick dog to this point)

To answer the question, it was initially thought of a philosophical different. I asked that question on your statement alone being attentive to it. I myself question the state of inherently evil people. But I mean we can make external judgments of evil onto another but to question the status of an individual to objectively declare them as evil is something I'm not sure. Psychopaths simply lack the moral judgments required and most will choose just to give with the flow but others may be want to choose a thrill seeking life and maybe killing would do that. Now obviously I wouldn't tolerate such actions but to that the killer's identity doesn't view them as bad because he/she can't view that as "wrong". To the most maybe from a logical standpoint.

So to be direct with your question I guess I would just terminate him if given the opportunity after he has committed the first or about as he is to do it.
 

SpankyMcFly

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Shouldnt the question rather be: when infps do not go bad? :)

Gas the INFP, typology war now.

Dibs on the ESTJs then other TJs.

@OP. My 'roomate' is an INFP and has idealized realism. You could even say he's a bit jaded.

What several are describing are identity crises. First, these are normal and healthy. Second I've talked to a few dozen people going through them, from people losing their religion, failing in a relationship to the existential. The grief model is pretty much spot on as to how humans respond in general.

I think a way to look at how this plays out with the INFP schematic in mind is the oft discussed 'conflict loop'. For an INFP that is Fi - Si. They will reminisce over the event/s then their Ne will weigh in and offer an imagined alternate scenario for Fi to evaluate. Si will but in and remind them of the reality. Rinse repeat. This could manifest in several ways, anger, depression etc and this aspect isn't type related, imo.

Te is the way out and forward for the looping INFP. They need to verbalize the turmoil in a detached way, as if describing someone else. It's while doing this that thoughts crystallize and become internalized. Ne is the real driver of the loop imo because every time they relive the event their Ne tries to Houdinni out of it via endless what if scenarios. Shut down the Ne by helping them verbalize and thereby crystallize the thoughts. Then Ne is like 'dude! wtf!? I can't work with this! In other words 'foreclosure'.

I have no evidence to support this, just some thoughts. Eehh
 

entropie

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Gas the INFP, typology war now.

Dibs on the ESTJs then other TJs.

@OP. My 'roomate' is an INFP and has idealized realism. You could even say he's a bit jaded.

What several are describing are identity crises. First, these are normal and healthy. Second I've talked to a few dozen people going through them, from people losing their religion, failing in a relationship to the existential. The grief model is pretty much spot on as to how humans respond in general.

I think a way to look at how this plays out with the INFP schematic in mind is the oft discussed 'conflict loop'. For an INFP that is Fi - Si. They will reminisce over the event/s then their Ne will weigh in and offer an imagined alternate scenario for Fi to evaluate. Si will but in and remind them of the reality. Rinse repeat. This could manifest in several ways, anger, depression etc and this aspect isn't type related, imo.

Te is the way out and forward for the looping INFP. They need to verbalize the turmoil in a detached way, as if describing someone else. It's while doing this that thoughts crystallize and become internalized. Ne is the real driver of the loop imo because every time they relive the event their Ne tries to Houdinni out of it via endless what if scenarios. Shut down the Ne by helping them verbalize and thereby crystallize the thoughts. Then Ne is like 'dude! wtf!? I can't work with this! In other words 'foreclosure'.

I have no evidence to support this, just some thoughts. Eehh

Te ends with really bad emotions lived thru themselves. Identity crisis is analyzed quickly but not survived quickly. Arrogance is always in the hands of those, who know the least...
 

GeminINFP

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Hitler and Anikan Skywalker are popular ones. Any INFP hurt by love really. But I think your assumption that all or even most INFPs believe we are pure is false. Many descriptions present us that way stereotypically, but we are aware of our own darkness. Upset an INFP and you'll see a smile, but you are burning like Gollum in the pits of Mordor as far as our imagination is concerned. Also, good and evil are not always black and white -- or at least, they flip side's for us since we can step in another's shoes. So let's see.... has anyone seen the new movie "A Monster Calls?" The little boy seems like a good candidate. Depending on your perspective of good and evil, Dany Targarian. I admit she has her moments. The Skull Kid in Zelda's Majora's Mask. Umm.... yeah, or take any "good" INFP, and look at him or her through the eyes of the enemy. Yuna vs Seamore and Sin and Yevon in FFX. Anne of Green Gables from the eyes of her orphanage and maybe Gilbert in the classromm during the slate incident.... that's all I have at the moment. But even if there are not a lot of INFP villains, there are plenty of instances when we snap.
UPDATES: MewTwo ... more of a TJ though... I think the problem, is it's hard for us to plan, manage, or sustain that anger into becoming permanently evil.
 
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Hitler and Anikan Skywalker are popular ones. Any INFP hurt by love really. But I think your assumption that all or even most INFPs believe we are pure is false. Many descriptions present us that way stereotypically, but we are aware of our own darkness. Upset an INFP and you'll see a smile, but you are burning like Gollum in the pits of Mordor as far as our imagination is concerned. Also, good and evil are not always black and white -- or at least, they flip side's for us since we can step in another's shoes. So let's see.... has anyone seen the new movie "A Monster Calls?" The little boy seems like a good candidate. Depending on your perspective of good and evil, Dany Targarian. I admit she has her moments. The Skull Kid in Zelda's Majora's Mask. Umm.... yeah, or take any "good" INFP, and look at him or her through the eyes of the enemy. Yuna vs Seamore and Sin and Yevon in FFX. Anne of Green Gables from the eyes of her orphanage and maybe Gilbert in the classromm during the slate incident.... that's all I have at the moment. But even if there are not a lot of INFP villains, there are plenty of instances when we snap.
UPDATES: MewTwo ... more of a TJ though... I think the problem, is it's hard for us to plan, manage, or sustain that anger into becoming permanently evil.

Haha. Yeah I’d need post it notes for my evil world domination schemes.

Tuesday: Infiltrate the political system.

Wednesday: disband the senate

Thursday: declare myself emperor

Friday: pick up dry cleaning
 
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