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  1. #31
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    Not taking into consideration present day political values, I see the US as historically ENTJ (3w4).

  2. #32
    To here knows when... Odi et Amo's Avatar
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    Northeast U.S. - ENxJ 1w2 so/sp
    Southern/Midwest U.S. - xSFJ 9w8 sx/so
    West Coast Best Coast - INxP 3w4 for California, 5w4 for everywhere else sp/sx

    Ohio as a whole - ISFJ 6w5 sp/sx
    Columbus - ENFP sx/so
    Solitude
    Comes just as it goes
    Goes as just its umbra
    Comes


    “Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
    ― Albert Camus

    4w5/5w4/1w2, Neutral Good, RlxAI

  3. #33
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Generally.
    You don't need to qualify it with the use of that word. Everything that comes under the heading of MBTI is automatically synonymous with the notion of 'generally'

    Think of it as the human ego, it survives, so long as no one actually examines it with a critical eye.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #34
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    You don't need to qualify it with the use of that word. Everything that comes under the heading of MBTI is automatically synonymous with the notion of 'generally'
    A lot can get misconstrued with the wrong wording. Sorry for playing it safe.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  5. #35
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    A lot can get misconstrued with the wrong wording. Sorry for playing it safe.
    You misunderstand, my point is that your use of that word implies there is some version of MBTI that isn't general.

    The thing couldn't be more general if you asked a blind butcher to spread it over toast. It's not accurate in any sense of the word.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #36
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    This sounds more F>T to me than N>S, since SF types can generally be pretty idealistic too and are also less practical-minded than STs and even NTs (I think an ENTJ would give way more thought to practicalities than an ESFJ).

    Generally.
    I disagree. Te-Doms can be very moralistic in a dogmatic, doctrinaire way. Jung himself describes Te-Doms as such:

    Psychological Types, Chapter 10, page 435:

    In accordance with his definition, we must picture a, man whose constant aim -- in so far, of course, as he is a pure type -- is to bring his total life-activities into relation with intellectual conclusions, which in the last resort are always orientated by objective data, whether objective facts or generally valid ideas. This type of man gives the deciding voice-not merely for himself alone but also on behalf of his entourage-either to the actual objective reality or to its objectively orientated, intellectual formula. By this formula are good and evil measured, and beauty and ugliness determined. All is right that corresponds with this formula; all is wrong that contradicts it; and everything that is neutral to it is purely accidental. Because this formula seems to correspond with the meaning of the world, it also becomes a world-law whose realization must be achieved at all times and seasons, both individually and collectively. Just as the extraverted thinking type subordinates himself to his formula, so, for its own good, must his entourage also obey it, since the man who refuses to obey is wrong -- he is resisting the world-law, and is, therefore, unreasonable, immoral, and without a conscience. His moral code forbids him to tolerate exceptions; his ideal must, under all circumstances, be realized; for in his eyes it is the purest conceivable formulation of objective reality, and, therefore, must also be generally valid truth, quite indispensable for the salvation of man. This is not from any great love for his neighbour, but from a higher standpoint of justice and truth. Everything in his own nature that appears to invalidate this formula is mere imperfection, an accidental miss-fire, something to be eliminated on the next occasion, or, in the event of further failure, then clearly a sickness.

  7. #37
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    How we love the voice of authority, and we prefer even a discredited authority than no authority at all -

    Psychological Types, Chapter 10, page 435:

    In accordance with his definition, we must picture a, man whose constant aim -- in so far, of course, as he is a pure type -- is to bring his total life-activities into relation with intellectual conclusions, which in the last resort are always orientated by objective data, whether objective facts or generally valid ideas. This type of man gives the deciding voice-not merely for himself alone but also on behalf of his entourage-either to the actual objective reality or to its objectively orientated, intellectual formula. By this formula are good and evil measured, and beauty and ugliness determined. All is right that corresponds with this formula; all is wrong that contradicts it; and everything that is neutral to it is purely accidental. Because this formula seems to correspond with the meaning of the world, it also becomes a world-law whose realization must be achieved at all times and seasons, both individually and collectively. Just as the extraverted thinking type subordinates himself to his formula, so, for its own good, must his entourage also obey it, since the man who refuses to obey is wrong -- he is resisting the world-law, and is, therefore, unreasonable, immoral, and without a conscience. His moral code forbids him to tolerate exceptions; his ideal must, under all circumstances, be realized; for in his eyes it is the purest conceivable formulation of objective reality, and, therefore, must also be generally valid truth, quite indispensable for the salvation of man. This is not from any great love for his neighbour, but from a higher standpoint of justice and truth. Everything in his own nature that appears to invalidate this formula is mere imperfection, an accidental miss-fire, something to be eliminated on the next occasion, or, in the event of further failure, then clearly a sickness.

  8. #38
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Austria: ISxJ 1w9 sp/sx
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  9. #39
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    How we love the voice of authority, and we prefer even a discredited authority than no authority at all -
    Whatever their reliability and value, the man is certainly an authority on his own theories.

  10. #40
    Junior Member anastasiatremaines's Avatar
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    I always thought America as a kind of ESxJ. I can't really decide between Fe and Te though.
    3w4 - 6w7 - 9w1

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