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Some (possibly) mistyped historical figures?? (i.e. Mozart, Dickens, Seuss, Adams)

ChrisC99

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Hi everyone! I haven't been on this forum in a year - my apologies. Grad school makes for a busy life :) Wonder if a lot of the same folks are still on here from when I last visited??

ANYWAY...I've been thinking that some folks in history with a type more or less 'established' i.e. by Keirsey, seem to have been assessed more along the lines of the public PERCEPTION of them, their works or their career rather thyan what contemporaries actually documented them as acting like.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Mozart is typically referenced as an INTJ, because the popular notion envisions such a prolific composer as spending his days in silent contemplation. But by all accounts, there was little 'introverted' about the personality of Mozart; the film 'Amadeus' was an exaggeration, but only a slight one! He interacted with great minds, other musical talents and their families throughout Europe, making countless new acquaintances (friends and enemies alike) nearly everywhere he went, and staying in touch with them as the years went on. He was a known practical joker, who would leap over tables and chairs when he got bored from teaching music for too long, would attend carnivals in costume just to make people laugh, and write poems in lewd humor (and often multiple languages) set to music. He was also a poor future planner with a very disorganized lifestyle and no sense of managing money. He also had a hot temper, and could be sensitive to criticism. None of this seems to suggest I, J, or even T territory to me!

Charles Dickens is often referred to as an ENFP. The sentiments in his BOOKS are certainly people-centered and filled with all manner of joyous interaction...but by all counts, Dickens himself did NOT enjoy the company of other people. The same goes for Dr. Seuss, now that I think about it.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe is often typed as an introverted thinker...again, I think because people are inclined to think of such a prolific and introspective writer and massive intellect as an introvert and thinker. His bouts of depression certainly made him shy away from the public eye at times...but those aside, he seems to be every definition of the extroverted thinker, seeking out interaction wherever possible and entertaining groups with long stories. He was also very, VERY emotional - having a quick (but easily appeasible) temper and inheriting his mother's deep sensitivity and compassion.

Founding father John Adams is usually typed as an ENTP. But, he initially shied away from the public, preferring to live in privacy, giving in to pressure to enter the public eye only for the sake of the revolutionary cause. Even then, when he wasn't engaged in debate or making speeches he preferred privacy with his family...and once he retired from public life, he spent the last three decades of his life living alone on the family farm, rarely seen in public again. I don't think an extrovert could HANDLE that kind of a retirement! Ben Franklin for example, who WAS the epitome of an ENTP through and through, kept traveling and receiving hordes of visitors to the day of his death whenever his health permitted; he claimed to feel sick if he went more than a few days without doing so. Furthermore, Adams doesn't seem to have had the emotional detachment to have been a T; he liked structure and formalities, but he took almost EVERYTHING personally!

What do y'all think??
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
Since when did people start thinking that Mozart was an INTJ?... Lmao. Never heard that before.

And about Goethe, no doubt he was an INFJ.
 
I

Infinite Bubble

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I've seen Mozart mostly being referred to as an ESFP, which is most probably correct.

[MENTION=14236]ChrisC99[/MENTION], what type do you think Dickens was then?
 

Anna Jorovic

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Charles Dickens was an usually complicated person. At times he was very quiet and would go on walks with his children or friends and not say a word for hours. Also, he could sit and write for five, six, seven hours a day with no interruptions. On the other hand, when he was younger he had a game where he liked to hang out of a third floor window and try to drop cherries into people's hats walking on the path below, and he always managed to charm his way out of trouble. He loved to give public performances of plays and his stories, and loved the attention. Also, he was very domineering and in-charge of nearly everyone he came into contact with - he used people like a chess player would move a pawn. He also had some weird beliefs, like believing that sleeping facing north improved your writing ability (and, considering his amazing skill, who are we to doubt that haha?) ENFP seems a decent shot at typing him.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Gandhi is often typed INFJ.

I think he may have been INFP. Everything about his life and struggles suggests unbending, unwavering Fi in the face of overwhelming odds.

His philosophy of passive resistance and LIVING one's ideals...it just seems more Fi to me.

Also, his rejection of and disregard for the caste system--I think an INFP, more than any other type (even the other NFs) would have little use for what they might see to be a superficial and outdated way of ranking people and keeping them bound in mental slavery. The British Empire took advantage of this system and used it to keep the Indian people subjugated and Gandhi was fully aware of this.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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George Washington...occasionally typed as ISTJ because he was perceived as being quiet and reserved...

In actuality, he tended to keep his mouth shut because he had very bad teeth from a young age.

I say ESTJ. He was a natural leader and a good logistics man. Not the best strategist though. But he generally made good use of his underlings...he had an eye for talent and accordingly chose his generals.

He was also known to be energetic and good in a supervisory role, despite being a man of few words.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I also think Jefferson may have been an INTJ, despite frequent typings as INTP...but I would need to refresh my memory on his life and writings before making this assessment
 

Anna Jorovic

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I also think Jefferson may have been an INTJ, despite frequent typings as INTP...but I would need to refresh my memory on his life and writings before making this assessment

I read a biography about him about a year ago and couldn't really relate at all, so I doubt he's INTP. Probably an IN-J type.
 
W

WALMART

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[MENTION=19700]Lyedecker[/MENTION] - one one of the points of Fi is that it does not express its ideals in any readily available manner - that unlike the Fe type, which expresses itself purely and is therefore 'free' of presence in the mind, Fi adheres to typical notions of repression, that the source of feeling is never touched upon nor emptied, only sublimed by minute facets of the type's actions.

I think INFJ may fit better, still.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Perhaps.

I'm still sticking with INFP.

I never said I was good at typing others and very well may be wrong, it's just a general vibe I get from what I know of his life and writings.

He also meditated regularly. Meditation on a regular basis changes how the brain and mind operate. I'm curious how Fi might look in an extremely disciplined and enlightened person. In that case, it might be very difficult to distinguish from Fe. It's possible he had trained his mind to the point of utilizing both.
 

The Great One

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Malcom X is always typed as INTJ, or INTP. However, I thought that the was an ENFP with strong Te.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Charles Dickens was an usually complicated person. At times he was very quiet and would go on walks with his children or friends and not say a word for hours. Also, he could sit and write for five, six, seven hours a day with no interruptions. On the other hand, when he was younger he had a game where he liked to hang out of a third floor window and try to drop cherries into people's hats walking on the path below, and he always managed to charm his way out of trouble. He loved to give public performances of plays and his stories, and loved the attention. Also, he was very domineering and in-charge of nearly everyone he came into contact with - he used people like a chess player would move a pawn. He also had some weird beliefs, like believing that sleeping facing north improved your writing ability (and, considering his amazing skill, who are we to doubt that haha?) ENFP seems a decent shot at typing him.

Agree.

ENFP (or ESFP) I think.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Malcolm X cared little of offending people so long as he was speaking honestly. ENFP, maybe. But what about ENTP?
 

Elfboy

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Mark Twain: ENTP as opposed to ENFP. more of a sense of irony and enjoys writing about tricksters (I think Tom Sawyer, who was based on Twain's childhood, is also a mistyped ENTP)
Joan of Arc: E?FP as opposed to INFP. there is no way in bloody hell she was Te inferior
 

Doctor Cringelord

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JFK, usually typed as ESTP, but I have a hard time seeing it. Thoughts, anyone?

In fact, the entire Kennedy clan almost deserves their own thread on this matter. Joseph was most definitely ENTJ.
 

The Great One

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Malcolm X cared little of offending people so long as he was speaking honestly. ENFP, maybe. But what about ENTP?

His values seemed way too strong to be an ENTP. I saw that Fi fiery conviction in him.
 

The Great One

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JFK, usually typed as ESTP, but I have a hard time seeing it. Thoughts, anyone?

In fact, the entire Kennedy clan almost deserves their own thread on this matter. Joseph was most definitely ENTJ.

He was some type of extravert that used Ti and Fe, and I don't think that he was an ESFJ.
 

DoctorCroupy#9

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Teddy Roosevelt is usually typed as ESTP (not too far off), but a little research will show he was definitely more of an NT.

He got into outdoorsy, sportsy stuff to fit in with his uber manly dad, but he never really enjoyed it as a kid. He was interested in intellectual pursuits before being inspired by his dad to get into fitness. He also read, and wrote, many, MANY books (not that an SP couldn't do that), and he very much enjoyed playing political games and coming up with ways to manipulate others for the greater good. He was also ALWAYS known to be thinking about the future (not very SP). On the day he was forced to be president, he was thinking about how he could best secure his next term haha.
He loved to debate and talk about theory (mostly political/strategy theorizing, from what some of his bios say) He also was known to be quite a troll to his friends and some rivals haha. He would send out polarizing memos to his peers just to invoke reactions for his own amusement. He also went out of his way to try the untested path and come up with original solutions to problems, regardless of whether they worked better than the standard method. This whole "innovation for innovation's sake" way of working sounds UBER ENTP to me, and not in the least bit xSTP. An xSTP would just want to jump in and get the job done the tried-and-true way, not sit and think of a new way for the heck of it.

ESTP isn't a bad typing for him on a superficial level, but NT (specifically ENTP) seems more likely if you research the guy past his popular 'brawny man' exterior.
 

Shudder

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^ This. Ive always believed he was NT over SP. But then again, I've also read a TON about him.
 

RaptorWizard

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Thomas Edison isn't ENTP; he's ESTJ.

Tesla: "If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with ... diligence ... to examine straw after straw. ... I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90% of his labor."
 
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