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  1. #31
    Member DoctorCroupy#9's Avatar
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    It's obvious this is a subject he's just very passionate about, hence all the emotionally charged "I don't agree with it because I don't agree" circular arguments. He probably didn't mean to come off as so rude and narrow-minded.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    ummmm

  3. #33
    Member DoctorCroupy#9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    ummmm
    ...brella.

    I know. I could have held back a bit, too. Don't judge me haha I like debates

  4. #34
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If you're a thinker at all you're not going to be too satisfied by an ideology and much less a shallow and naive one such as libertarianism.
    Strict libertarianism I agree. But if you are a thinker you are likely to have libertarian leanings. As opposed to say, right wing conservative leanings, or bleeding heart liberal leanings, or communist/socialist leanings.

    Anyways, you and I can differ on opinion, but the survey results seem to support my expectations, which I don't find surprising. Perhaps you do, but I think you are letting your personal bias (you seem anti-libertarian) color your judgement about how most NTs are likely to think.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    Strict libertarianism I agree. But if you are a thinker you are likely to have libertarian leanings. As opposed to say, right wing conservative leanings, or bleeding heart liberal leanings, or communist/socialist leanings.

    Anyways, you and I can differ on opinion, but the survey results seem to support my expectations, which I don't find surprising. Perhaps you do, but I think you are letting your personal bias (you seem anti-libertarian) color your judgement about how most NTs are likely to think.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationa...aking_excuses)

    Go read. Learn. Become as smart as you'd like to believe you are.

  6. #36
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    I think one might find a correlation between Te and right wing ideologies and conversely for Fi and left wing ideologies.
    What does this predict about INTJs? We use both.

    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    Strict libertarianism I agree. But if you are a thinker you are likely to have libertarian leanings. As opposed to say, right wing conservative leanings, or bleeding heart liberal leanings, or communist/socialist leanings.
    Thinkers, and NTs in particular, value independence and competence, so there may be some tendency toward political views based on non-interference and personal responsibility. I wouldn't call myself conservative, liberal, socialist, or libertarian, but then I have always hesitated to put labels on my views, political or otherwise.

    I often come across as a liberal here, since more of the positions I have discussed coincide with liberal views. Others are much more conservative, however. When I look at what my positions on various issues have in common, it is a balance between individual liberty/responsibility and equality of opportunity. The first part means the government - ALL levels of government - and everyone else should leave me alone and let me do what I want, provided it doesn't interfere with others' right to do the same. This sounds very hands-off libertarian, but I also recognize that only the government, and the federal government at that, has the power to prevent all other entities from encroaching on individual liberty. The second part means that it is in everyone's best interests, individually and collectively, to maintain as level a playing field as possible. This way, someone's outcome in life more directly reflects their desires and efforts, rather than luck or the poor choices of others (e.g. parents). As a result, I have taken positions that fall within each of the four categories you list above at one time or another. My views do not coincide neatly with any one.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #37
    Member DoctorCroupy#9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    Strict libertarianism I agree. But if you are a thinker you are likely to have libertarian leanings. As opposed to say, right wing conservative leanings, or bleeding heart liberal leanings, or communist/socialist leanings.

    Anyways, you and I can differ on opinion, but the survey results seem to support my expectations, which I don't find surprising. Perhaps you do, but I think you are letting your personal bias (you seem anti-libertarian) color your judgement about how most NTs are likely to think.

    Exactly. No matter how many times you say this, Lark will insist his opinion is fact, all the while backing up his 'facts' by quoting the opinions of others. It's all just circular reasoning haha.

  8. #38
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationa...aking_excuses)

    Go read. Learn. Become as smart as you'd like to believe you are.
    Admittedly, our data is scarce. Still, such as it is it confirms my bias and not yours. I'm not sure where on the political spectrum you think NTs fall, since all I've got to go on is your completely unsubstantiated assertion that the correlation between NT's and libertarianism "is dumb".

    You are the one that needs to read your second link. Rationalization is one of the first things that people do when their bias is not confirmed. Your next sentence is an example of the second. Here's a link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    @Sgt. Pepper - yeah I can see where this is going. Lark can have the last word. As you mentioned upthread when you refered to being surprised this was a touchy subject, it simply isn't that important to me.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    Admittedly, our data is scarce. Still, such as it is it confirms my bias and not yours. I'm not sure where on the political spectrum you think NTs fall, since all I've got to go on is your completely unsubstantiated assertion that the correlation between NT's and libertarianism "is dumb".

    You are the one that needs to read your second link. Rationalization is one of the first things that people do when their bias is not confirmed. Your next sentence is an example of the second. Here's a link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    @Sgt. Pepper - yeah I can see where this is going. Lark can have the last word. As you mentioned upthread when you refered to being surprised this was a touchy subject, it simply isn't that important to me.
    Its not about having the last word, for someone who is setting out their stand as a thinker you've displayed a lot of feeling language in your posts.

    The reality is that this is poor research, conducted with the sole purpose of confirming a hypothesis, its bad science and bad reasonings but it is great rationalisation, now you can consider rationalisations as simply a tag to toss around and attribute as you see fit or you can consider the structure of your argument and see if it is rooted in it or not, its your choice and ultimately will relate to what I was talking about, are you more interested in critical appraisal or simply confirming parallels between your favourite cognitive functions and political ideologies?

    I'm inclined towards some socialist and some conservative thinking, I didnt say that either are correlated with any cognitive functions, particularly thinking because I'd say that a true thinker is more inclined to be ambivalent about ideologies than a standard barer but whatever. Its not an intellectual pissing match, I was trying to clue you in but maybe you're not at that point yet and you're satisfied with less.

  10. #40
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    I just read through this and wow. I feel like this whole spat could have been avoided if everyone just realized it was all for fun. There's no way to prove it either which way. There was no need to get hostile and take it so personally. It looks like this was just supposed to be a fun conversation. no need to spit all over the idea just because you disagree. Ya gotta enjoy life a bit Lark haha


    and for me, it's pretty much spot on. I definitely lean a bit libertarian in my views.

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