Joanna Newsom's type?

[Rajah]

Good Lord. Judging by this sample size of two (2), I apparently really don't like ISFPs.

In any event, it's kind of too bad if you want to claim someone talented as an ISFP just because you don't want to admit she's a (crazy) INFJ. I'm not sure what this "decorum" is of which you speak, but I'm not buying it.

FWIW, I find Joanna Newsom kind of annoying. An annoying INFJ, to be sure, but annoying nonetheless.

 

[maliafee]

Well you don't have to like us. But it's too bad you don't like us only because we happen to be correct about something and you're not. *giggle* I'm kidding of course.

You could be right. I'm just making a strong case. I don't see why the hatefulness...

 

[Rajah]

Me? I don't think I was hateful. I think calling someone "rude" and "condescending" in the context of a debate - apparently just because you don't like her viewpoint - is rather hateful, though. I'd blame that on Quinlan, but you were awfully quick on that bandwagon.

Speaking of which (derail...), I don't get why people think ISFPs are so docile and sweet. Or for that matter, Fs period. I've met some nasty Fs in my time...

 

[maliafee]

I agree.

F's are just as nasty as T's if not more so.

Anyway, why be mad at me? I like ENTPs a lot and having one seem to dislike me is really quite... disconcerting. What can I do to make you respect me and not hate me now? Hah...

 

[Rajah]

I'm not mad at you...?

*confused*

 

[maliafee]

Good Lord. Judging by this sample size of two (2), I apparently really don't like ISFPs.

^^^

*cries*

 

[Quinlan]

Me? I don't think I was hateful. I think calling someone "rude" and "condescending" in the context of a debate - apparently just because you don't like her viewpoint - is rather hateful, though. I'd blame that on Quinlan, but you were awfully quick on that bandwagon.

Speaking of which (derail...), I don't get why people think ISFPs are so docile and sweet. Or for that matter, Fs period. I've met some nasty Fs in my time...

Well what do you expect? You basically said that ISFPs are incapable of writing down and recording a metaphorical song, are we really so feeble minded as to be incapable of writing a metaphorical song that the very act of doing so screams away from us? Because that is what you strongly suggested.

I don't think you were hateful either, but your understanding of type and human ability lacks a lot of subtlety.

When you say "<type> can't do this" you are basically stating a challenge or putting down each person that identifies with that type.

 

[maliafee]

Well what do you expect? You basically said that ISFPs are incapable of writing down and recording a metaphorical song, are we really so feeble minded as to be incapable of writing a metaphorical song that the very act of doing so screams away from us? Because that is what you strongly suggested.

I don't think you were hateful either, but your understanding of type and human ability lacks a lot of subtlety.

When you say "<type> can't do this" you are basically stating a challenge or putting down each person that identifies with that type.

You make such a good point. That's the problem; the lack of subtlety. Also, a possible misunderstanding of the ISFP type and the extent of its possibilities.

I don't even think Bjork is INFJ, she VIs as ISFJ (and ISFJs can be incredibly creative: I know -- my boyfriend is one and is a painter and singer/songwriter and blows away this cow town consistently).

 

[nanook]

in joanna i see liv tylor, and when i see liv tylor i have to think of Jerry O'Connell (who starrs in crossing jordan). both are perfect enneagram nines. fairly aggressive (which screams Fi) with strong righteous judgments about everything (one wing) but totally passive (in denial) about it. the nines fantasy island is motivated by Fi. but physiognomy tells me that joanna newsom is probably a perceiver, meaning her first function is perceptive. the only perceiver with Fi are extroverted: enfp or esfp. i am not sure if extroverted nines exist, on the other hand, the nines unawareness of identity is sort of screaming for extroversion.

björk is esfj, her creativity is in Si.

love it or hate it.

hope the pictures help

the guy on the left of björk pops up when you do a google image search for esfj. all i have got

 

[Rajah]

I could say I mean no disrespect, but I'm not subtle and I'm not lying. You all suck at typing.

 

[maliafee]

^ is ridiculous.

As for Bjork, I'd agree with ESFJ... I'm wrong about the ISFJ, I see now. But both Liv and Joanna are ISFPs.

 

[nanook]

just so we understand us, what do you think your (isfp) functions are?

 

[Rajah]

^

Just because you invariably end your posts with a doesn't mean you're less of a jerk, you know. You've been hostile since your second post in this thread and cowering behind an ISFP label for some unknown reason. I don't have much respect for what you're saying.

I have zero opinion about you as an individual, so please don't erroneously chalk this up to some ENTP hatred. The number of people I actually concern myself with hating is remarkably limited.

 

[Quinlan]

I could say I mean no disrespect, but I'm not subtle and I'm not lying. You all suck at typing.

Well it is disrespectful, and it has no basis in the theory, saying an ISFP can't write a metaphorical song is like saying an INFJ can't take a beautiful photograph or an ENTP can't care for people or a black person can't play golf, they are blanket statements which are not only disrespectful but just plain incorrect under any reasonable personality theory.

It's not your conclusion that has bothered me, I could care less if this girl is ISFP or INFJ, I don't know anything about her. It's the assumptions you're using to come to that conclusion, which I feel are completely unnessary and inaccurate.

 

[Quinlan]

...and Bjork is irrelevant, if they didn't have similar voices she wouldn't have even been brought up.

 

[nanook]

methaphors come from the logic of emotions anyway. intuition is pseudo visual, but not at all visual in the way a metaphors is. for me, a perception-dominant, they are very secondary. i use them, to create a bridge to people, who have no perceptive vision, or not the same one, that i have. this translation is very vague, ie not lossless at all. a metaphor is usually a static picture. it's neither sensory nor intuitive, but sometimes, metaphors may imply a dynamic functionality. if so, they can be evoked by what ever perceptive function your opponent in communication uses. this way, a metaphor can be a translation link between Ni and Ne people or between Se or Si people.

dichotomy judgers like FiSe or FiNe can and will create an equal amount of metaphors, if they talk about personal (emotional) experience. but they may statistically talk more or less about different topics, some of which can be handled without metaphors.

 

[Rajah]

Well it is disrespectful, and it has no basis in the theory, saying an ISFP can't write a metaphorical song is like saying an INFJ can't take a beautiful photograph or an ENTP can't care for people or a black person can't play golf, they are blanket statements which are not only disrespectful but just plain incorrect under any reasonable personality theory.

Can you not wrap your head around the idea for about five seconds that even if you discount the MBTI theoretically, there may be something to the concept that like-minded people with like abilities answer a core set of questions similarly? That maybe you're just not being rigid enough about categorizing people by what they express? That maybe - just maybe - you're being a bit of an ISFP about the whole thing?

 

[Quinlan]

Can you not wrap your head around the idea for about five seconds that even if you discount the MBTI theoretically,

I'm not talking about discounting MBTI theory, I'm saying that within MBTI theory as far as I know ability has never been taken into account. Whatever theory you seem to be using, dictates what types can and can't do, that is not MBTI. People with the same preferences can develop in a multitude of different ways, they can be nutured or neglected, if someone of any type really applied themselves they could find many varied areas where they can achieve. Having an MBTI type is not a handicap.

there may be something to the concept that like-minded people with like abilities answer a core set of questions similarly? That maybe you're just not being rigid enough about categorizing people by what they express? That maybe - just maybe - you're being a bit of an ISFP about the whole thing?

Maybe I am, funny that, but if you really do not want to cause offense (maybe you don't mind?) or if you really want to understand other people (maybe you don't?) then you should delve a little deeper than blanket statements.

 

[maliafee]

Not only that, but THEORETICALLY, it is very likely that her writing says "ISFP" -- how does it not? Who else writes so profusely descriptively ABOUT nature and surroundings and is like a little child all grown up? Honestly. That is by-the-book ISFP. I know many INFJs and am close with them. I would know if she were, it would be obvious. I grew up not only drawing and playing music and singing but also writing, writing, writing, writing...

 

[maliafee]

just so we understand us, what do you think your (isfp) functions are?

Fi, Se, Ni, Te (MBTI)