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Richard Dawkins

  • Thread starter Infinite Bubble
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Infinite Bubble

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I think it is quite to clear to see that he is a Te user. He cares only about the facts, evidence and empirical data, whilst rejecting his own personal values and feelings. I've seen him typed as both NTJ types in the past, but I think Te really is his most prominent characteristic, and inferior Fi makes more sense than Se, thus I type him as ENTJ (although it's not ridiculous to suggest that he uses Si-Ne instead).

If anyone here has read The God Delusion, it shows how prominent the function is by frequently citing works and quotes by peers to back up arguments as well as nearly constantly working with exterior frameworks and systems rather than his own personal logic, which would indicate Ti.

Plus his attachment to Darwin and his theory of Natural Selection, I think because of his Te adhering to an exterior framework, cements my evaluation of ENTJ, or at least, a dominant Te user.


I've provided this video (not only because it is hilarious) particularly for the interview that begins at 0:16, and sections of which are scattered throughout (1:15, 2:09, 3:29).

I think at 1:15 especially, shows inferior Fi, with his inability to answer such a question because of the requirement to make a personal subjective judgement and interpretations. This kind of question is the exact opposite of Te. At the end he also states that "I see myself", which might also indicate Se, only seeing what concretely is.

Again, at 2:09, he shows Te by mentioning the dictionary, an external system.

As for Enneagram, I'm not too sure, although I'll take a guess and say something along the lines of 5w6-1w9-2w1. No idea about the variants.
 
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Mole

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How typical! Reducing a great Evolutionary Biologist to type. Rather than engaging what he says, we deracinate him under the guise of impartiality and attack him as a person.

How low can we get?

Can such bad faith take us any lower?
 

zago

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INTP with a severe case of tertiary temptation.

I find this particular case very interesting. The amazing thing about it is that Dawkins, in his main work of dismantling religion at least, has not broken any new ground. He is obsessed with the past (Si) - the old ways of philosophy, and how incorrect they are. He latches on to them like a dependent. He subsists on the past, despite the appearance of hating it. The past provides him with an incredibly ripe source of stupidity to try to correct.

This is the absolute bread and butter of the INTP. While Ne could be exploring the unknown world, he instead trades his happiness for security and clings to the known world, Si. When I was a teacher, I was very similar to Dawkins. I went to school every day to basically clash with students and the system itself and how stupid it was. I'd spend countless hours thinking about all the things that were wrong with it, all the ways it could be done better. I wanted to break free of this known world that I had been raised in, but to do something unprecedented (Ne) would have felt like jumping off a cliff.

In the end, though, I did make the jump. It's been hard and unrewarding since I made that jump, but it is still a relatively new change and I absolutely do not regret making it. Life had gotten too stale to move on with. There is something quite unpleasant about moving through life forcibly surrounding yourself with people you think are wrong about everything. I think Dawkins is one of the angriest people I have ever seen. I feel bad for him.

I think if Dawkins were an INTJ, he would be a totally different person of course, but his vitriol, if he still had it, would be more aimed at corruption in politics rather than stupidity in religion. That's the thing about the INTJ - they have tertiary Fi, which would lead them to protest mostly about unfairness, evildoing, etc. For an INTJ, look no further than his cosmologist buddy Lawrence Krauss, who has a much louder tongue about evil politicians and a much more vested interest in INTJ domains such as the Big Bang and the physics of Star Trek.
 

zago

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How typical! Reducing a great Evolutionary Biologist to type. Rather than engaging what he says, we deracinate him under the guise of impartiality and attack him as a person.

How low can we get?

Can such bad faith take us any lower?

I really agree with you in some threads, but it seems like any time anyone wants to talk about type you just come in and say it is all wrong and limiting. I think everyone understands that and takes things with a grain of salt. Everyone does fall most snugly into one of the 16 MBTI types - that is one of the assumptions we all kind of agreed to in signing up for this board. It's just for fun, ya know?
 

Mole

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It's just for fun, ya know?

This is the perfect example of bad faith. It's almost as though we don't know where mbti came from and how extensive it is throughout the world.

And of course it must be bad faith for how could we acknowledge we are attracted to such a bad man a Carl Jung, and how could we acknowledge that we reify ourselves just for fun.

It's almost as though we don't know that we first reify those we wish to harm.

It's as though we can't recognise how damaged we are, and how much we damage others.
 

zago

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This is the perfect example of bad faith. It's almost as though we don't know where mbti came from and how extensive it is throughout the world.

And of course it must be bad faith for how could we acknowledge we are attracted to such a bad man a Carl Jung, and how could we acknowledge that we reify ourselves just for fun.

It's almost as though we don't know that we first reify those we wish to harm.

It's as though we can't recognise how damaged we are, and how much we damage others.

Then you're the same as Dawkins! You gotta wonder what the guy expects. If he is so frustrated with stupid religious people, why does he keep talking to them? Tertiary temptation, baby.

What do you expect to discuss at a typology forum? If you're beyond this silly little system, move beyond it. That will be much better than staying within it and arguing with people trying to create your own army of converts.

That's the way things move. Change doesn't occur from within a system, an old way of thinking can only produce more of itself. Something arises from the outside and gradually everyone abandons ship.

All I know is I'm here to talk MBTI. I know exactly what you are trying to say, I acknowledge the truth in it, and I choose to continue talking about MBTI 'cause it's amusing and I feel like it. It's not as if I base my entire worldview on it.
 

Mole

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Then you're the same as Dawkins! You gotta wonder what the guy expects. If he is so frustrated with stupid religious people, why does he keep talking to them? Tertiary temptation, baby.

What do you expect to discuss at a typology forum? If you're beyond this silly little system, move beyond it. That will be much better than staying within it and arguing with people trying to create your own army of converts.

That's the way things move. Change doesn't occur from within a system, an old way of thinking can only produce more of itself. Something arises from the outside and gradually everyone abandons ship.

All I know is I'm here to talk MBTI. I know exactly what you are trying to say, I acknowledge the truth in it, and I choose to continue talking about MBTI 'cause it's amusing and I feel like it. It's not as if I base my entire worldview on it.

I am delighted you continue to talk about mbti, and I am delighted I continue to critique mbti. It's called freedom of speech.
 

zago

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I am delighted you continue to talk about mbti, and I am delighted I continue to critique mbti. It's called freedom of speech.

Eh, I'm not buying it. Now you're bringing out the first amendment on me? I never said you couldn't say what you're saying. I'm just asking, does it make sense? You're not critiquing MBTI. That is done plenty here, as people analyze and sharpen their understanding of exactly what each cognitive process means and how it manifests in life. You're simply rejecting the whole system.
 

Mole

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You're simply rejecting the whole system.

So what? What better place to reject the whole system?

If I am wrong, there are many devotees to point out where I am wrong.

Perhaps you like to preach to the converted, but I am in love with the unconverted.

And look, this site brings the unconverted to me every day.

Of course the possibility within the critique of mbti is its transcendence.
 

zago

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Definite Te user. ExTJ.

I'm going to have to disagree. Right off the bat, he is absolutely not an ESTJ.

I'm at least willing to entertain the notion of ENTJ, but it seems highly implausible. When someone has dominant Te, they are more driven toward management and are prone to take on roles of responsibility in which they dictate, enforce, and manipulate principles that directly affect people beneath them. Politician. Principal. Manager. CEO. Lawyer.

Dawkins is more of a lone wolf, and less of a doer than a thinker. I personally think INTx is pretty clear cut, in this case. But then again, you provided no analysis.
 
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WALMART

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I'm going to have to disagree. Right off the bat, he is absolutely not an ESTJ.

I'm at least willing to entertain the notion of ENTJ, but it seems highly implausible. When someone has dominant Te, they are more driven toward management and are prone to take on roles of responsibility in which they dictate, enforce, and manipulate principles that directly affect people beneath them. Politician. Principal. Manager. CEO. Lawyer.

Dawkins is more of a lone wolf, and less of a doer than a thinker. I personally think INTx is pretty clear cut, in this case. But then again, you provided no analysis.


What about assisting to organize something like this?

atheist-bus.jpg


Not to mention his position as one of the Four Horsemen.

I am of nearly the same opinion as Infinite Bubble. His works (even before The God Delusion) are laid like massive webs of reference and guided, substantiated thought. I would think a Ti's approach to be in the vein of The Universe on a String, or the Zombie Survival Guide, or George Carlin skit routines, or John Keegan's Face of Battle, or a historical fiction writer, or Michael Crichton.

The reason I'm leaving ESTJ open is because I really don't think Si has gotten a fair shake in comparison to Ni. I have yet to reach a satisfactory conclusion regarding the two.
 
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Infinite Bubble

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How typical! Reducing a great Evolutionary Biologist to type. Rather than engaging what he says, we deracinate him under the guise of impartiality and attack him as a person.

You make the mistake of thinking that I take MBTI (and typology in general, for that matter) seriously and that I think it is a scientifically valid theory. I don't. Like zago, I merely find the concept interesting and fun -- and isn't that enough?

And of course I'm not attacking him as a person. I still admire him for who he is, his works, and what he does and has accomplished. There is no degradation from him as a human being, in my mind. Although naturally my curiosity would take hold with my interests of both typology and Richard Dawkins.

INTP with a severe case of tertiary temptation.

Although you make a good argument for his use of tertiary Si, there is really no evidence whatsoever for him using Ti rather than Te. I think he is in fact a prime example of a dominant Te user in science. He never goes by his own, personal logic, using and siding with already existing constructs that have been shown to work.

Just to round off my case for Te vs Ti, take a look back at the video I posted, at 0:27:


The direct quote is: "You mean true for you is different from true for anybody else, how can something be true for you... something's either got to be true or not." That there is clear Te. It is objective logic that is true for everybody, not subjectivity that may only be true for the individual. It appears that it's Bill O'Reilly who is using Ti here, although strangely I've seen him typed as ENTJ himself.

I'm going to have to disagree. Right off the bat, he is absolutely not an ESTJ.

Actually, I don't think it is that unlikely. I am still not completely sure on him using Ni-Se, and from what you said here:

He is obsessed with the past (Si) - the old ways of philosophy, and how incorrect they are. He latches on to them like a dependent. He subsists on the past, despite the appearance of hating it. The past provides him with an incredibly ripe source of stupidity to try to correct.

One could put two and two together and see that as a clear Te user and this evidence for Si that he is indeed an ESTJ! I still personally think ENTJ is a more viable option, because I don't see much Ne in him (though it would only be tertiary, so not that strong anyway).

When someone has dominant Te, they are more driven toward management and are prone to take on roles of responsibility in which they dictate, enforce, and manipulate principles that directly affect people beneath them. Politician. Principal. Manager. CEO. Lawyer.

I think that's more of a stereotype of Te usage than anything. And an argument could be made that his advocacy of atheism and criticism of religion is his "role of responsibility" you are describing. He is trying to dictate and enforce this directly onto others with debates, lectures, TV appearances etc.

What about assisting to organize something like this?

Good point, yes I think this is also a good argument for this Te organisation.

The reason I'm leaving ESTJ open is because I really don't think Si has gotten a fair shake in comparison to Ni. I have yet to reach a satisfactory conclusion regarding the two.

I agree, there isn't much evidence to suggest neither Si nor Ni. He doesn't show clear usage of either, which should be seen as evidence that it is less differentiated than his Te, which rules out INTJ or even ISTJ, if the argument would be made. Although we have to take into account that either would be less apparent as introverted functions. Still, I think he truly operates most out of Te.
 

Lark

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Well, I sort of think that the ad campaign on the buses illustrates a lot about the misunderstanding or failure to connect with others and their beliefs, maybe he's autistic and mind blind? I dont know, anyway, a type which has major relating fails would be my guess.
 
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WALMART

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Well, I sort of think that the ad campaign on the buses illustrates a lot about the misunderstanding or failure to connect with others and their beliefs, maybe he's autistic and mind blind? I dont know, anyway, a type which has major relating fails would be my guess.


Another vote for ExTJ, hurrah.

It is a pretty silly tactic. I have to drive by a giant "THINK GOD" billboard every day. In Texas. In Texas, there are billboards telling me to "THINK GOD".

Isn't that redundant?
 

Mole

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You make the mistake of thinking that I take MBTI (and typology in general, for that matter) seriously and that I think it is a scientifically valid theory. I don't. Like zago, I merely find the concept interesting and fun -- and isn't that enough?

'Course not, while you are having fun, I am creating cognitive dissonance.

Naturally you experiene cognitive dissonance as a disservice because cognitive dissonance is emotionally painful.

So is the emotional pain worthwhile?

Well yes, cognitive dissonance enable us to learn, cognitive dissonance enables us to transcend what we knew without abandoning it.

So if we can learn to bear the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance, we have much to gain.

So when you say +mbti, I say -mbti, and you can choose to bear the emotional pain or not.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I agree with ENTJ as a Te-dom and focus on abstract thinking.
 

Elfboy

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?NT? 3w4 So/Sp
 
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WALMART

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I agree with ENTJ as a Te-dom and focus on abstract thinking.
?NT? 3w4 So/Sp


I am skimming through a couple works of his I own, my vote goes ESTJ. At the very least, he idealizes ST thought patterns over NT thought patterns.

Take this excerpt - commentary on an article he titled 'I'm an atheist BUT...': "...has attracted an enormous number of contributors who have effectively eviscerated all these criticisms, but in a less guarded, more outspoken tones than my own, or than those of my academic colleagues..."

I believe attempted reservation of expression is a key tenet of ST's (and SF's, perhaps to lesser extent).
 

zago

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I think the nature of Dawkins' thinking is introverted. He doesn't so much measure and apply as he does connect and systematize. See, that's the difference between introverted and extroverted thinking. Extroverted thinking is much more raw--for instance, if he were out in the field analyzing the physiometrics of different fossil finds or doing work in the delineating of a more specific category of intermediary species. Introverted thinking, being meta, takes this all in as 1 big picture and searches for the broader implications. Dawkins has focused on the theory of evolution as a whole and juxtaposed it with all of religion, drawing the big picture argument that the god of the creation mythologies is false.
 
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