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Thread: Richard Dawkins

  1. #11
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Definite Te user. ExTJ.
    I'm going to have to disagree. Right off the bat, he is absolutely not an ESTJ.

    I'm at least willing to entertain the notion of ENTJ, but it seems highly implausible. When someone has dominant Te, they are more driven toward management and are prone to take on roles of responsibility in which they dictate, enforce, and manipulate principles that directly affect people beneath them. Politician. Principal. Manager. CEO. Lawyer.

    Dawkins is more of a lone wolf, and less of a doer than a thinker. I personally think INTx is pretty clear cut, in this case. But then again, you provided no analysis.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree. Right off the bat, he is absolutely not an ESTJ.

    I'm at least willing to entertain the notion of ENTJ, but it seems highly implausible. When someone has dominant Te, they are more driven toward management and are prone to take on roles of responsibility in which they dictate, enforce, and manipulate principles that directly affect people beneath them. Politician. Principal. Manager. CEO. Lawyer.

    Dawkins is more of a lone wolf, and less of a doer than a thinker. I personally think INTx is pretty clear cut, in this case. But then again, you provided no analysis.

    What about assisting to organize something like this?



    Not to mention his position as one of the Four Horsemen.

    I am of nearly the same opinion as Infinite Bubble. His works (even before The God Delusion) are laid like massive webs of reference and guided, substantiated thought. I would think a Ti's approach to be in the vein of The Universe on a String, or the Zombie Survival Guide, or George Carlin skit routines, or John Keegan's Face of Battle, or a historical fiction writer, or Michael Crichton.

    The reason I'm leaving ESTJ open is because I really don't think Si has gotten a fair shake in comparison to Ni. I have yet to reach a satisfactory conclusion regarding the two.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    How typical! Reducing a great Evolutionary Biologist to type. Rather than engaging what he says, we deracinate him under the guise of impartiality and attack him as a person.
    You make the mistake of thinking that I take MBTI (and typology in general, for that matter) seriously and that I think it is a scientifically valid theory. I don't. Like zago, I merely find the concept interesting and fun -- and isn't that enough?

    And of course I'm not attacking him as a person. I still admire him for who he is, his works, and what he does and has accomplished. There is no degradation from him as a human being, in my mind. Although naturally my curiosity would take hold with my interests of both typology and Richard Dawkins.

    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    INTP with a severe case of tertiary temptation.
    Although you make a good argument for his use of tertiary Si, there is really no evidence whatsoever for him using Ti rather than Te. I think he is in fact a prime example of a dominant Te user in science. He never goes by his own, personal logic, using and siding with already existing constructs that have been shown to work.

    Just to round off my case for Te vs Ti, take a look back at the video I posted, at 0:27:



    The direct quote is: "You mean true for you is different from true for anybody else, how can something be true for you... something's either got to be true or not." That there is clear Te. It is objective logic that is true for everybody, not subjectivity that may only be true for the individual. It appears that it's Bill O'Reilly who is using Ti here, although strangely I've seen him typed as ENTJ himself.

    I'm going to have to disagree. Right off the bat, he is absolutely not an ESTJ.
    Actually, I don't think it is that unlikely. I am still not completely sure on him using Ni-Se, and from what you said here:

    He is obsessed with the past (Si) - the old ways of philosophy, and how incorrect they are. He latches on to them like a dependent. He subsists on the past, despite the appearance of hating it. The past provides him with an incredibly ripe source of stupidity to try to correct.
    One could put two and two together and see that as a clear Te user and this evidence for Si that he is indeed an ESTJ! I still personally think ENTJ is a more viable option, because I don't see much Ne in him (though it would only be tertiary, so not that strong anyway).

    When someone has dominant Te, they are more driven toward management and are prone to take on roles of responsibility in which they dictate, enforce, and manipulate principles that directly affect people beneath them. Politician. Principal. Manager. CEO. Lawyer.
    I think that's more of a stereotype of Te usage than anything. And an argument could be made that his advocacy of atheism and criticism of religion is his "role of responsibility" you are describing. He is trying to dictate and enforce this directly onto others with debates, lectures, TV appearances etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    What about assisting to organize something like this?
    Good point, yes I think this is also a good argument for this Te organisation.

    The reason I'm leaving ESTJ open is because I really don't think Si has gotten a fair shake in comparison to Ni. I have yet to reach a satisfactory conclusion regarding the two.
    I agree, there isn't much evidence to suggest neither Si nor Ni. He doesn't show clear usage of either, which should be seen as evidence that it is less differentiated than his Te, which rules out INTJ or even ISTJ, if the argument would be made. Although we have to take into account that either would be less apparent as introverted functions. Still, I think he truly operates most out of Te.

  4. #14

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    Well, I sort of think that the ad campaign on the buses illustrates a lot about the misunderstanding or failure to connect with others and their beliefs, maybe he's autistic and mind blind? I dont know, anyway, a type which has major relating fails would be my guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well, I sort of think that the ad campaign on the buses illustrates a lot about the misunderstanding or failure to connect with others and their beliefs, maybe he's autistic and mind blind? I dont know, anyway, a type which has major relating fails would be my guess.

    Another vote for ExTJ, hurrah.

    It is a pretty silly tactic. I have to drive by a giant "THINK GOD" billboard every day. In Texas. In Texas, there are billboards telling me to "THINK GOD".

    Isn't that redundant?

  6. #16
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    You make the mistake of thinking that I take MBTI (and typology in general, for that matter) seriously and that I think it is a scientifically valid theory. I don't. Like zago, I merely find the concept interesting and fun -- and isn't that enough?
    'Course not, while you are having fun, I am creating cognitive dissonance.

    Naturally you experiene cognitive dissonance as a disservice because cognitive dissonance is emotionally painful.

    So is the emotional pain worthwhile?

    Well yes, cognitive dissonance enable us to learn, cognitive dissonance enables us to transcend what we knew without abandoning it.

    So if we can learn to bear the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance, we have much to gain.

    So when you say +mbti, I say -mbti, and you can choose to bear the emotional pain or not.

  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I agree with ENTJ as a Te-dom and focus on abstract thinking.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #18
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I agree with ENTJ as a Te-dom and focus on abstract thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    ?NT? 3w4 So/Sp

    I am skimming through a couple works of his I own, my vote goes ESTJ. At the very least, he idealizes ST thought patterns over NT thought patterns.

    Take this excerpt - commentary on an article he titled 'I'm an atheist BUT...': "...has attracted an enormous number of contributors who have effectively eviscerated all these criticisms, but in a less guarded, more outspoken tones than my own, or than those of my academic colleagues..."

    I believe attempted reservation of expression is a key tenet of ST's (and SF's, perhaps to lesser extent).

  10. #20
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    I think the nature of Dawkins' thinking is introverted. He doesn't so much measure and apply as he does connect and systematize. See, that's the difference between introverted and extroverted thinking. Extroverted thinking is much more raw--for instance, if he were out in the field analyzing the physiometrics of different fossil finds or doing work in the delineating of a more specific category of intermediary species. Introverted thinking, being meta, takes this all in as 1 big picture and searches for the broader implications. Dawkins has focused on the theory of evolution as a whole and juxtaposed it with all of religion, drawing the big picture argument that the god of the creation mythologies is false.

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