Star Wars VS Star Trek - Is Kirk Immune to The Force??

[digesthisickness]

i forgot the enterprize can time travel.. how about this: the enterprise finds a galaxy completely devoid of life, except for a death star pointing right at them, then as they shields are barely holding, a Jedi spirit comes by and tells them their only hope is to travel back to the past... then.. well actually that's as far as i thought it through. maybe later it turns out the jedi was part of the dark side, using jedi mind tricks to make them think the universe is devoid of life, and is trying to get them to actually make the galaxy is devoid of life?

edit: do those jedi spirits still have any powers?

They can only be seen, I believe, in order to communicate. But, if they did that, it would probably end in Kirk sending some trainee down as a human shield for Spock and a couple others, him too no doubt, to attempt to stop the threat at the source and do what they do, get information and learn.

since we're going there, apparently.. how fast can your kitchen travel?

I wish. Right now it's traveling about 1,040 miles/hour, but useless for this purpose.

 

[Society]

it would probably end in Kirk sending some trainee down as a human shield for Spock and a couple others, him too no doubt, to attempt to stop the threat at the source and do what they do, get information and learn.

oh, so spock ends up trying to read the mind of a jedi... vulcan psionics vs. jedi psionics, what happens then?

 

[digesthisickness]

oh, so spock ends up trying to read the mind of a jedi... vulcan psionics vs. jedi psionics, what happens then?

Spock has to touch, so he'd have to use his phaser or another of the team would have to have their phaser on stun and use it immediately in order to beat out the Jedi's ability to control minds without touching. I'm not even sure if a Jedi's mind control would work on them if one takes into consideration the midis. Probably not. So, assuming that's true, Spock would succeed. He'd tell Kirk as much as he could about the situation at hand, and then his logic plus Kirk's talking would probably end up in a really boring "understanding and coming together" scene.

Wow, that fell flat as hell.

 

[digesthisickness]

Wait, would the phasers work on Jedi?

 

[kyuuei]

^ There is no evidence to state they would not. Jedis lose consciousness in the series.. being shot, light-sabered-to-the-face, and other such acts seem to hit them just the same as others.. Luke has to physically deflect lasers shot at him with his light saber to stop them.

Also, I agree that picking a Jedi would help a ton. If we're talking Yoda or Obi Wan, I have very little faith in Kirk no matter what.. if we're talking Anakin or Luke, I think Kirk has a fighting chance.

 

[digesthisickness]

^ There is no evidence to state they would not. Jedis lose consciousness in the series.. being shot, light-sabered-to-the-face, and other such acts seem to hit them just the same as others.. Luke has to physically deflect lasers shot at him with his light saber to stop them.

Also, I agree that picking a Jedi would help a ton. If we're talking Yoda or Obi Wan, I have very little faith in Kirk no matter what.. if we're talking Anakin or Luke, I think Kirk has a fighting chance.

Very good thinking, but if their basic bodily building blocks are different from humans then would they be effected the same way?

As for the person I was talking to who started this whole thing, he recently told me about his sources of information, including but definitely not limited to, galactic history timelines, and a good bit of it is from books. I was solely going by the movies created by George. And, I'm not sure about whether books should count. Ideas?

 

[kyuuei]

Very good thinking, but if their basic bodily building blocks are different from humans then would they be effected the same way?

As for the person I was talking to who started this whole thing, he recently told me about his sources of information, including but definitely not limited to, galactic history timelines, and a good bit of it is from books. I was solely going by the movies created by George. And, I'm not sure about whether books should count. Ideas?

Theoretically the books would be a better source since they usually contain more information. But for the sakes of this argument, I would rely on common ground. Most people have not read the books.. it does little good to include a ton of obscure information and create semantics between people who are seeing the series in two different modes.

But if we were wanting an overall, scientific evaluation of these two fighters, we would have to consult books, movies, corporate-approved-spin-off series and cartoons, and author/producer testimonies based on both franchises.

 

[digesthisickness]

Theoretically the books would be a better source since they usually contain more information. But for the sakes of this argument, I would rely on common ground. Most people have not read the books.. it does little good to include a ton of obscure information and create semantics between people who are seeing the series in two different modes.

But if we were wanting an overall, scientific evaluation of these two fighters, we would have to consult books, movies, corporate-approved-spin-off series and cartoons, and author/producer testimonies based on both franchises.

Well, then DAMN! I'm not even qualified to be in a conversation with him about it if books are part of the source information. I asked him a few questions about George's sanctioning of the information in them and told him that I'm only going by that, so we'll see what he says. He's very sad though that everyone hasn't read them. Ha. He's made it clear that his nerd is emaciated wanting to feed on a debate.

 

[kyuuei]

Well, then DAMN! I'm not even qualified to be in a conversation with him about it if books are part of the source information. I asked him a few questions about George's sanctioning of the information in them and told him that I'm only going by that, so we'll see what he says. He's very sad though that everyone hasn't read them. Ha. He's made it clear that his nerd is emaciated wanting to feed on a debate.

Neither am I if we're going to the books. But books and movies often contradict themselves. If he's as big of a nerd as you say, he ought to be able to argue his case based on the movies solely and not rely on obscure information as his backbone argument. He makes comparatively less statements for Kirk in this debate, so I am thinking he is not as knowledgeable (or unwilling to bring up knowledge) for Kirk's side of the case.

 

[digesthisickness]

Neither am I if we're going to the books. But books and movies often contradict themselves. If he's as big of a nerd as you say, he ought to be able to argue his case based on the movies solely and not rely on obscure information as his backbone argument. He makes comparatively less statements for Kirk in this debate, so I am thinking he is not as knowledgeable (or unwilling to bring up knowledge) for Kirk's side of the case.

Oh, good point about the contradictions, etc. I'll be sure to bring that up. I gave him the link to this thread and he's responding to me with an abundance of information that both impresses me but also loses me. And, that's just depressing to my sci-fi love nerve system.

He seems to be very much excited about Kirk being immune. Not like he favors him or anything, but more like he just thinks it's an awesome idea that he would be considering he's "just human" compared to holy-shit-its-a-Jedi.

I'll ask him too about your idea. The one about pitting two specific people against one another. My god, to see that battle. What the HELL is wrong with Hollywood.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Okay, so I was having a conversation with someone when they said the following. After reading it, I'd like your opinion on how right this person is, and if he's not right, how. As a huge fan of both, this is bugging me.

HIM: Here's another thought - in the Star Wars EU, anything that is not touched by the Force cannot be killed with a lightsaber (because in the EU lighsabers are only possible because of the Force) or "Force pushed' etc. So in a Star Wars vs Star Trek crossover, all the Jedi powers would be useless against Captain Kirk!

I really hate this takes up part of my mental real estate, but your supposed "expert" is wrong. It's true that in the E.U. Jedi powers are apparently necessary for constructing lightsabers. They are not necessary for operating lightsabers. This is even evident within the films themselves, as Han Solo uses one to cover Luke in Tauntaun guts. And that stupid cyborg general from Episode III appears to have no Jedi powers whatsoever, in the movie itself, or in EU sources (according to Wookiepedia)

Even if the force did not work outside of the GFFA, Jedi still have light-sabers.

As I side not, I always hated the fact that there were various ways of getting Force "immunity" or "Kryptonite" in the EU. It seems lazy, and it doesn't make sense if life is part of the force. In the films themselves, there are several characters that display immunity to Jedi mind tricks, but I always figured that this was more because of alien psychology. Furthermore, both individuals that display this are shrewd, greedy individuals, not very "weak-minded."

It is interesting that even though the interstellar civilization of Star Wars is tens of thousands of years older than the one in Star Trek, Star Trek technology appears to be far more advanced. Teleporters, food replicators, universal translators, these don't exist in Star Wars.

The one about pitting two specific people against one another. My god, to see that battle. What the HELL is wrong with Hollywood.

Maybe this will be Episode 7, considering J.J Abrams's involvement.

 

[kyuuei]

^ I completely forgot that other people were using light sabers! Hah! And finally someone that agrees that Star Wars is not as technologically advanced as Star Trek

 

[Society]

It is interesting that even though the interstellar civilization of Star Wars is tens of thousands of years older than the one in Star Trek, Star Trek technology appears to be far more advanced. Teleporters, food replicators, universal translators, these don't exist in Star Wars.

but they don't really use it well, do they?
why not use the replicators to build warp-drive von neumann probes teleporting their resources from barren rocks and asteroids to establishing FTL communication relays with teleportation chambers so that you can communicate through exploration drones on the front line of the expansion? this way you could teleport people, entire structures or even weapons to location on whim, explore a much larger area of space, have more flexible spaceships, have a lot less downtime for your crew... all while avoiding most of the risks one might have for life - everyone is safely sitting in a colony for most of the journey.
warfare can be entirely non-lethal - the moment you get rid of someone's shield you just lock on to the life forms, replicate a suitable environment (based on your scanners) and beam them up into it, or alternatively - if you want to go the lethal way - just beam up a nuke onto the ship.
and how many colonies? as much as you want, terraforming would be really easy - you can teleport various resources and reconstruct them into the right molecular structure, changing the chemistry of entire atmospheres, adding/reducing mass...

i mean, there's a lot that can be done which they simply don't think of. its like civilization lost it's creativity.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

^ I completely forgot that other people were using light sabers! Hah! And finally someone that agrees that Star Wars is not as technologically advanced as Star Trek

Yes, the technology in Star Wars is thousands of years older, but except for maybe the Death Star, Star Trek has way more advanced technology. Droids are less commonplace, but they appear to be more advanced as well. Who would you rather have on your side, C-3PO, or Data? R2 is awesome, but he can't even talk!

 

[kelric]

but they don't really use it well, do they?
why not use the replicators to build warp-drive von neumann probes teleporting their resources from barren rocks and asteroids to establishing FTL communication relays with teleportation chambers so that you can communicate through exploration drones on the front line of the expansion?

I believe the "explanation" is that there's a distance limit on "beaming " (destruct/restruct teleportation), and that the limit's something like 25000 miles (wikipedia says 40K km), and doesn't work well through distances of rock. That prevents it from doing long-distance resource extraction, etc. Of course... the real reason that Star Trek has teleportation is... it was cheaper to film than making sets for spacecraft landing on planets. Not a very satisfying explanation, to be sure.

i mean, there's a lot that can be done which they simply don't think of. its like civilization lost it's creativity.

This is true... a lot of science fiction / fantasy suffers from this -- big, interesting premises that don't get taken advantage of. I mean, going back to the resource extraction... Star Trek even has people down in a prison-mine harvesting crystals, or whatever (movie VI). I'd think that sort of thing would be easily mechanized, at their supposed level of technology.

 

[kyuuei]

Yes, the technology in Star Wars is thousands of years older, but except for maybe the Death Star, Star Trek has way more advanced technology. Droids are less commonplace, but they appear to be more advanced as well. Who would you rather have on your side, C-3PO, or Data? R2 is awesome, but he can't even talk!

Yeah, I mean honestly even if you include the limitations of movie magic and look at some of the more advanced movies, Star Trek STILL outweighs them technologically. I'm too casual to describe specifics, but I know superior technology when I see it.

 

[Cellmold]

Sounds legit, I'll buy it. Only because I love the idea of Kirk kicking multiple Jedi ass with brawling fisticuffs and table flipping.

And throwing his shoes.

 

[Society]

I believe the "explanation" is that there's a distance limit on "beaming " (destruct/restruct teleportation), and that the limit's something like 25000 miles (wikipedia says 40K km), and doesn't work well through distances of rock.

that's why i said build an array - a teleportation chamber every 2500 to pass on the teleported goods. as for mineral extraction, you could still teleport the material out of a hole from the top down to the resource you want (or just use a laser) and extract everything out of it. it can be as small as you need it to be (a few molecules thick?), no danger of any structure collapsing with force fields...

This is true... a lot of science fiction / fantasy suffers from this -- big, interesting premises that don't get taken advantage of. I mean, going back to the resource extraction... Star Trek even has people down in a prison-mine harvesting crystals, or whatever (movie VI). I'd think that sort of thing would be easily mechanized, at their supposed level of technology.

this reminds me:

 

[93JC]

This thread is tough to wade through. Too much of a reminder of how Star Wars became very, very stupid after 1983.

 

[digesthisickness]

This thread is tough to wade through. Too much of a reminder of how Star Wars became very, very stupid after 1983.

Yeah, my grandmother wasn't a fan either.