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Star Wars VS Star Trek - Is Kirk Immune to The Force??

kyuuei

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Good point. I'd like to say they train without using the force, with vibroblades perhaps, but how do you simply "turn off" such an inherent part of their nature? Maybe they have a way, like someone here may train doing something blindfolded. I imagine the Jedi Order having such insight.

Right, but even when they aren't using the force, it is an integral part of their system. I don't use my hand when I sleep, but I would still feel distorted if it were suddenly missing. I think training in the new environment would be an essential part of the Jedi. They would either need to adapt and overcome a lack of the force, or learn to tap back into the force in a new galaxy.

Though in my experience with crossover battles, you always presume characters have access to their strongest features - people like using Master Chief from Halo, and it's usually implied he has access to MJOLNIR. Same with Kratos, it is just implied he has his chain blades. A Jedi without the force or a lightsaber, he's nothing more than a finely trained spec ops soldier.

Right. Putting them and Kirk on the same level and giving Kirk the advantage. I would assume a Jedi would be able to tap into the force, even if it was different in a new galaxy vs his home galaxy, but Kirk would have the advantage of knowledge for an immediate battle. A Jedi could potentially counter many of the technological weapons Kirk would have at his disposal, but the element of surprise and his general sense of tenacity when it comes to finding the weaknesses in his enemies would be Kirk's battle if it were immediate. With training and time, the Jedi would overpower Kirk. The Jedi won't know how the ships and teleportation work immediately.. but with training, sure.

If Kirk were going into their galaxy, being trained to have to deal with anything being thrown his way, I think that teleportation would still be his key ability in survival against a Jedi attacking him as it would still take the Jedi by surprise--most people just do not teleport in that galaxy. I think Kirk could rid a Jedi of his light saber, but the force itself would still make the Jedi the victor as Kirk has no real weapon against it. It is everywhere. (Now Spock, on the other hand, may be a victor if he could get his hands on the opponent and do that Vulcan pass-tfo trick.)

hmm, but once you have FTL in the world without any space-warping involved, meaning your ship is actually moving itself faster then light speed (not folding space or wormholes or any kind of shortcut), aren't you sort of break the law of energy conservation? you've used the whole energy of the universe to accelerate... and then again to stop.. so the universe is sort of like in debt of one universe's energy (presumably to another universe-loanshark).

Assuming he's even using his ship. I wouldn't even consider a ship to be a key article for this battle, since most of Kirk's battles are not fought with the ship itself. It is a means of transfer to his many adventures, and while being a Captain of it is who he is, the ship runs just fine with or without him. If the battle were taking place on a ship that'd just give Kirk that much longer of an advantage on the time-to-survival ratio of Kirk vs Jedi.. Kirk knows his ship better than anyone, and that gives him a very huge homeland advantage on an otherwise already advantageous position.
 
W

WALMART

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Right, but even when they aren't using the force, it is an integral part of their system. I don't use my hand when I sleep, but I would still feel distorted if it were suddenly missing. I think training in the new environment would be an essential part of the Jedi. They would either need to adapt and overcome a lack of the force, or learn to tap back into the force in a new galaxy.


Like I said, though, if they have a way to inhibit their connection to the force they are already prepared for this... droids have neural scramblers, in the universe. They may have this technology as well. If they do, the point is moot...



Right. Putting them and Kirk on the same level and giving Kirk the advantage. I would assume a Jedi would be able to tap into the force, even if it was different in a new galaxy vs his home galaxy, but Kirk would have the advantage of knowledge for an immediate battle. A Jedi could potentially counter many of the technological weapons Kirk would have at his disposal, but the element of surprise and his general sense of tenacity when it comes to finding the weaknesses in his enemies would be Kirk's battle if it were immediate. With training and time, the Jedi would overpower Kirk. The Jedi won't know how the ships and teleportation work immediately.. but with training, sure.

If Kirk were going into their galaxy, being trained to have to deal with anything being thrown his way, I think that teleportation would still be his key ability in survival against a Jedi attacking him as it would still take the Jedi by surprise--most people just do not teleport in that galaxy. I think Kirk could rid a Jedi of his light saber, but the force itself would still make the Jedi the victor as Kirk has no real weapon against it. It is everywhere. (Now Spock, on the other hand, may be a victor if he could get his hands on the opponent and do that Vulcan pass-tfo trick.)


Why are we presuming Kirk has an immediate element of surprise? Jedi are masters of espionage. And why do we presume they won't know how his ship works? As me and Mane have established, they know far more in the Star Wars universe about interstellar travel (FTL has been established, apart from tricky happenings like in Star Trek). They might even view their technology as primitive. The Star Trek universe is only a century or three ahead of us. The Star Wars universe has had interstellar travel inherent to its workings for millennia.

As for teleportation, the power has achieved by many force users. They don't even need technology, it is a power inherent to their minds: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Teleport

I think we would have to select a specific Jedi, also, if this is to carry out seriously - just as I wouldn't pit Anakin against a Redshirt.
 

Winds of Thor

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The answer lies hidden in the Dagobah System. Beyond Alderaan, and is sourced from the Castle Lands.

Wrong forum.

No. There are many cult followings of Star Trek and Star Wars. So much so that conventions are organized, held and celebrated as thousands of fans converge regularly attending Trek and SW conventions on a consistent basis.
 

Winds of Thor

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Like I said, though, if they have a way to inhibit their connection to the force they are already prepared for this... droids have neural scramblers, in the universe. They may have this technology as well. If they do, the point is moot...
Or we could use the power from the phazers to recharge the dilithium crystals and block it that way:

 

Totenkindly

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As a friend suggested to me in private, Kirk's had his hoozit in so much poontang over the years that if he wasn't infected by midicholorians in the past, he sure would be soon enough.
 

digesthisickness

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Oh, shit, phazers, both hand-held and on board. And, Spock is a weapon in and of himself like [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] said. As are many other aliens, who come from various galaxies, who make up ST crews. But this midi energy and its limitations are still an issue as I'm not quite sure yet about their ability to work some or at all outside of their own galaxy (thanks for that info, [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION]). Whereas, the USS Enterprise and others in the fleet are designed specifically to work in many galaxies as are the crew. The Star Wars technology is so kick ass and advanced, but is it as effective when out of its galaxy? I don't see why not, personally, if we're only speaking of technology, but I'm open to different thoughts.

It would help if I knew how they bind the Star Wars galaxy together. Knowing that seems like it would be integral in figuring out if it is dependent on it or not.
 

digesthisickness

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As a friend suggested to me in private, Kirk's had his hoozit in so much poontang over the years that if he wasn't infected by midicholorians in the past, he sure would be soon enough.

Okay, LOL, damn good point. It's possible he's already come it contact with it, saw "the signs" again, went to Bones, who rolled his eyes, and 'cured' him thus making him inoculated.
 
S

Society

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Assuming he's even using his ship. I wouldn't even consider a ship to be a key article for this battle, since most of Kirk's battles are not fought with the ship itself. It is a means of transfer to his many adventures, and while being a Captain of it is who he is, the ship runs just fine with or without him. If the battle were taking place on a ship that'd just give Kirk that much longer of an advantage on the time-to-survival ratio of Kirk vs Jedi.. Kirk knows his ship better than anyone, and that gives him a very huge homeland advantage on an otherwise already advantageous position.


i was thinking of SWs ships (ST ships supposedly warp space itself, so they do keep the law of energy conservation.
 
S

Society

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It would help if I knew how they bind the Star Wars galaxy together. Knowing that seems like it would be integral in figuring out if it is dependent on it or not.

well the wiki said that they are a necessity for life in their galaxy, so... wait would they just die if they left it?
 

digesthisickness

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well the wiki said that they are a necessity for life in their galaxy, so... wait would they just die if they left it?

Interesting. Like oxygen perhaps? Or something similar? OR, electricity? If it's symbiotic, that would make it like a parasitic organism, right? Like how good bacteria works within us.
 
S

Society

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Interesting. Like oxygen perhaps? Or something similar? OR, electricity?

right, so let's say electricity only worked in our galaxy, and we left it, what would happen to us? the electrons in our atoms stop working... we'd become... little black holes? or maybe neutron status of ourselves - sort of like something curved out of a neutron star?
 

digesthisickness

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tight, so let's say electricity only worked in our galaxy, and we left it, what would happen to us? the electrons in our atoms stop working... we'd become... little black holes? or maybe neutron status of ourselves - sort of like something curved out of a neutron star?

I added another thought to my post. :)

Hmm, I would think it would just cause instant death. Thus neutralizing any effect it could have on the atoms.

Hmmmmmm.
 
S

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If it's symbiotic, that would make it like a parasitic organism, right? Like how good bacteria works within us.

well it said they are are a necessity for life, so... i guess that means they were the first, and the rest of life in their galaxy is parasitic for the midi-chlori? i suppose maybe this means they SW "humans' just look human but have a completely different midi-chlori based biochemistry... which means with all the Jedi powers, they (or any SW living thing) wouldn't be able to leave the SW galaxy at all (unless they can somehow bring the midi things with them)... the only way the conflict could happen would be if Kirk left the milky way to reach them.

then you have a new problem: SW happened along time ago, ST happens in the future, add traveling time to that (no idea how to calculate that)... which means they reach the SW galaxy long long after the SW cannon we have. what could have changed in the meantime? did technology progress? did they descend into chaos? does the force still work the same way? did they even keep the Jedi traditions?
 
S

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another thing to remember: the ST guys? they are us, they are our continuity of humanity - our future generations.
the SW guys either just look like us or some distant cousins of panspermia.

maybe the question we should be asking: how do we kick some Jedi ass?
 

digesthisickness

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well it said they are are a necessity for life, so... i guess that means they were the first, and the rest of life in their galaxy is parasitic for the midi-chlori? i suppose maybe this means they SW "humans' just look human but have a completely different midi-chlori based biochemistry... which means with all the Jedi powers, they (or any SW living thing) wouldn't be able to leave the SW galaxy at all (unless they can somehow bring the midi things with them)... the only way the conflict could happen would be if Kirk left the milky way to reach them.

"Necessity for life" is a key phrasing. If the midi-chlori can exist on its own, then its being first with the rest of life being parasitic is a justifiable assumption. Since it specifically mentions its instrumentation, its importance, to all things in that galaxy, then it seems possible that when it comes to life forms, it would be detrimental to those life forms to take them out of their element. Since, I'm not a Jedi yet (damnit) no matter how much I've tried, and I haven't heard of anyone else wielding a real force-fed sword on this planet, then it obviously doesn't work here. Which of course makes sense. It's what makes the SW series more "realistic" and believable. "Ohhhh, I can't do it, but they can, and this is why, so it's totally possible that it's real somewhere out there."

Which brings us to the next thing you said.

then you have a new problem: SW happened along time ago, ST happens in the future, add traveling time to that (no idea how to calculate that)... which means they reach the SW galaxy long long after the SW cannon we have. what could have changed in the meantime? did technology progress? did they descend into chaos? does the force still work the same way? did they even keep the Jedi traditions?

They MAY not be able to live outside of that galaxy, but being that the purpose of the USS Enterprise is to get all up in their business if they come across that galaxy, then the crossover would probably be due to this. Either one (SW or ST) could conceivably do something and accidentally cause a time-crossover. So the evolving or devolving of the SW galaxy inhabitants/world would be a consideration, but I like to think that the Jedi would make damn well sure that it evolved. Technology-wise, I haven't thought of completely though yet...
 

digesthisickness

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another thing to remember: the ST guys? they are us, they are our continuity of humanity - our future generations.
the SW guys either just look like us or some distant cousins of panspermia.

maybe the question we should be asking: how do we kick some Jedi ass?

:laugh:

A jedi walks into my kitchen? Because for some reason he hasn't died dead yet? Then I'm doing all I can to join forces, not fight. I'm not Kirk though. If the Jedi is a woman, she's already failed (it's mandatory), if not... well, this thread is here for a reason.

But, I did hit upon this "they are us" in my above post.
 
S

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Since, I'm not a Jedi yet (damnit) no matter how much I've tried, and I haven't heard of anyone else wielding a real force-fed sword on this planet, then it obviously doesn't work here.

wow, so really everyone ends up trying that as a kid? :D

They MAY not be able to live outside of that galaxy, but being that the purpose of the USS Enterprise is to get all up in their business if they come across that galaxy, then the crossover would probably be due to this. Either one (SW or ST) could conceivably do something and accidentally cause a time-crossover. So the evolving or devolving of the SW galaxy inhabitants/world would be a consideration, but I like to think that the Jedi would make damn well sure that it evolved. Technology-wise, I haven't thought of completely though yet...

i forgot the enterprize can time travel.. how about this: the enterprise finds a galaxy completely devoid of life, except for a death star pointing right at them, then as they shields are barely holding, a Jedi spirit comes by and tells them their only hope is to travel back to the past... then.. well actually that's as far as i thought it through. maybe later it turns out the jedi was part of the dark side, using jedi mind tricks to make them think the universe is devoid of life, and is trying to get them to actually make the galaxy is devoid of life?

edit: do those jedi spirits still have any powers?
 

digesthisickness

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wow, so really everyone ends up trying that as a kid? :D

I'm an ENTP, so I wouldn't automatically think every kid because I did, but still.... PROBABLY! All fans did to some degree, I imagine. :D

Also, kid? If I had one bit of theory to hold on to that it might still be possible, I'd try again immediately.

I'll answer the rest of your post in a bit. Have to do some nerdy things on this comp.
 

Qlip

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Sounds legit, I'll buy it. Only because I love the idea of Kirk kicking multiple Jedi ass with brawling fisticuffs and table flipping.
 
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