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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    it's iffy (it is a pop culture but it is a sub section of the MBTI), but does it matter? after all, this is the back ally of typoC, tucked between two other sub forums competing for the "last thread posted in" spot... you can pretty much post here bare breasts and nobody is going to notice.

    edit: star trek is Ti, star wars is Fi. happy now?
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  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Well, if anything, at least this thread verifies I am not as much a geek as I feared.

    I mean, really -- it's like asking whether the rules of Alice in Wonderland apply to the world of The Hunger Games and who would win in a fight. There either is no basis to even ask the question, or if you're bothering then you are assuming that both rulesets work equally in the merged world.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Mane's on the right track. The Force is essentially the energy in the universe itself. Energy is everywhere. Midis have the ability to actively tap into and contort that energy, and the humans feed off of that. Every universe has energy.

    Even if the Jedi was thrust into another universe, and had to learn that the energy in one universe is vastly different from that of another, s/he would need only time to train to eventually get used to that energy. The questions lies on if particular kinds of energy were only accessible to midis or if they access any energy around them. Considering they're so damn smart, a more powerful Jedi could still adapt I think. It is reasonable to assume that.

    Captain Kirk is still human. He has the advantage of knowing his universe better than any Jedi coming into it, being fully mission and battle capable even if he were transferred into Jedi territory with no adjustment period, and the elements of surprise having technology vastly out weighing what the Jedi are used to seeing like teleportation. The Jedi in an early fight would be confused and distorted from this universe, and Kirk has a great chance of winning.

    ... However, the longer the Jedi remains, the more he will become in tune with the energy of that universe, and the more access he will have to his powers. These are trained fighters and warriors despite their light saber. Time is on the side of the Jedi vs Kirk.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Mane's on the right track. The Force is essentially the energy in the universe itself.
    but obi-won explicitly says the force is the energy that binds the galaxy - that galaxy which we also know happens to be far far away. we don't actually know if its the energy of the universe itself, all we know is that it's a force which is part of the nature of their galaxy. so what if it's like what happens to Storm from the x-men whenever she leaves earth?

  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    but obi-won explicitly says the force is the energy that binds the galaxy - that galaxy which we also know happens to be far far away. we don't actually know if its the energy of the universe itself, all we know is that it's a force which is part of the nature of their galaxy. so what if it's like what happens to Storm from the x-men whenever she leaves earth?
    The energy that binds their galaxy.. but we have no reason to believe that their galaxy is not motivated by the same things our own is--principles like gravity (and presumably space principles despite old-school writing) and energy conservation seem to still exist and no one has given any doubt of otherwise. Technically, we can create light sabers now-a-days, but we cannot create a 'sword'.. the beam continues forever and ever. The force allows the saber part to exist.

    What I was debating was if there is an underlying specific type of energy in their galaxy unique only to them vs our own... or if energy really is something that they can tap into, the same way X-men tap into it at will. I have been given no reason to doubt that their galaxy is much different from our own in terms of energy principles, the formation of their galaxy and what holds it together, etc.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  6. #16
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    Even if it didn't, Jedi are trained in matters well beyond the scope of anything Kirk has imagined.

  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Even if it didn't, Jedi are trained in matters well beyond the scope of anything Kirk has imagined.
    True, but Jedi are also bound by human(oid) weaknesses the same as Kirk. It is arguably the Force and their ability to tap into it that sets them a part as warriors. And, as close to it as they are, we cannot discount the mental/cultural shock they would go into from their potential inability to tap in the force at all. For it to not exist--I would argue it would be like one's hand being cut off. Learning to fight without it at your side would take considerable time, and training, that most of their lifestyle has spent with the Force being there.

    The mental tenacity they are given in their training, to not ALWAYS rely on the force like a catering tool and instead for it to be a well-developed extension of the self, would mean they would pull through.. but in Trek territory, the Jedi would immediately be at a disadvantage.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    True, but Jedi are also bound by human(oid) weaknesses the same as Kirk. It is arguably the Force and their ability to tap into it that sets them a part as warriors. And, as close to it as they are, we cannot discount the mental/cultural shock they would go into from their potential inability to tap in the force at all. For it to not exist--I would argue it would be like one's hand being cut off. Learning to fight without it at your side would take considerable time, and training, that most of their lifestyle has spent with the Force being there.

    The mental tenacity they are given in their training, to not ALWAYS rely on the force like a catering tool and instead for it to be a well-developed extension of the self, would mean they would pull through.. but in Trek territory, the Jedi would immediately be at a disadvantage.

    Good point. I'd like to say they train without using the force, with vibroblades perhaps, but how do you simply "turn off" such an inherent part of their nature? Maybe they have a way, like someone here may train doing something blindfolded. I imagine the Jedi Order having such insight.


    Though in my experience with crossover battles, you always presume characters have access to their strongest features - people like using Master Chief from Halo, and it's usually implied he has access to MJOLNIR. Same with Kratos, it is just implied he has his chain blades. A Jedi without the force or a lightsaber, he's nothing more than a finely trained spec ops soldier.


    You could say Kirk has access to the USS Enterprise, but we all know what happened to the Death Star...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The energy that binds their galaxy.. but we have no reason to believe that their galaxy is not motivated by the same things our own is--principles like gravity (and presumably space principles despite old-school writing) and energy conservation seem to still exist and no one has given any doubt of otherwise.
    hmm, but once you have FTL in the world without any space-warping involved, meaning your ship is actually moving itself faster then light speed (not folding space or wormholes or any kind of shortcut), aren't you sort of break the law of energy conservation? you've used the whole energy of the universe to accelerate... and then again to stop.. so the universe is sort of like in debt of one universe's energy (presumably to another universe-loanshark).

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    hmm, but once you have FTL in the world without any space-warping involved, meaning your ship is actually moving itself faster then light speed (not folding space or wormholes or any kind of shortcut), aren't you sort of break the law of energy conservation? you've used the whole energy of the universe to accelerate... and then again to stop.. so the universe is sort of like in debt of one universe's energy (presumably to another universe-loanshark).
    This just proves the technological knowledge in Star Wars is greater than that in Star Trek. The Hutts are very pervasive.

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