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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emotionalogic View Post
    Bach: INTP 9w1 I don't know much about his life, but his mastery of counterpoint and craftsmanship suggest t-dom. Counterpoint requires entertaining multiple melodies at once (ne works), and he was a traditionalist (si). He had a big family, which suggests fe.

    Mozart: ESTP 3w4 I see se in his hedonism, aestheticism, and focus on the present. He was ti-fe; he produced all his music from his head fully formed, never amending or correcting (ti), and he was social and emotionally open (fe).

    Beethoven: INTJ 4w5 A really obvious fi-te; he had no regard for politeness, social standards, or the feelings of others, but he had a very rich inner world of emotion (fi). Unlike Mozart, he would constantly rework his scores until he had them just right (te, implied xxxj). Like House, his inferior se can make him look like a perceiver; he was definitely a slob. But he was also directive, driven, arrogant, single-minded, selfish, uncompromising and controlling. He was an introvert who preferred to focus on his private work rather than form social connections. And he was a Ni user with a strong appreciation for metaphor and archetype (fate knocking at the door...). Of the three big composers, he was the only major innovator (ushering in the romantic movement), and he was certainly ahead of his time. It makes strong intuitive sense for Bach to be a t-dom, Mozart to be an s-dom, and Beethoven to be an n-dom. And I see little ne, he was single-minded and obsessive. INTJ 4s are rare, which is why he's often typed as a fi-dom. Not every tortured artist is fp.
    I agree with Beethoven, INTJ 4w5 fits well for him. INTP sounds good for Bach, but I can't say about his Enneagram type. Mozart was definitely an ESxP (contrary to my OP). His life and records of personality show Type 7, most likely 7w6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I think the question of whether Bach (the best music composer ever and my adopted grandfather) was more of a Te type or a Ti type is highly debatable. His music is procedural and rule-based, and much of it is structured using external templates and principles. On the other hand, he had an exceptional talent for drawing out the contrapuntal potential in a melodic passage, and seems to have done so partly as a hobby, judging by the fact that some of his most exemplary work in that regard had little financial potential.

    We do have a little bit of information about Bach outside of his music. Going by what I've read about his personality, he seems to have been much more comfortable with controversy than any INTP I've ever encountered. I would say that he was probably a T, though, since he seems to have been largely devoid of interpersonal finesse (people will point to his technical excellence as a sign of him being a T, but that's nothing to go by. There are plenty of Feeler artists who have a strong ability and desire to make their works technically rich, and in Bach's time, technical skill in a composer was much more highly valued than it is today).
    Hmm, it's a difficult one, but more likely Ti, because of how rigorously logical his music is. It doesn't say much, but I think if he had been a Fi user, his music might have been a little less "cold" and technical, and more emotionally passionate. Of course, that might just be from the time he was in.

  2. #22
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    A large portion of Bach's music was written to be played during church, so it isn't surprising that some of it sounds emotionally subdued. On the whole, I don't find his music to be cold; if I did, I wouldn't like it. I think people who describe his music as cold are looking at its level of technical brilliance and jumping to the conclusion that someone who was so good at the technical aspect of music was clearly in it to weave a rigorous structure rather than make an emotional impact.



    This is far from being cold music, technically rigorous though it is.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Emotionalogic's Avatar
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    Bach's music definitely displays great emotional power. That has no bearing on his type. I think he's a t-dom because his personality was that of a consummate craftsman.

  4. #24
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    I can't say anything as I don't know enough about them. However, I could agree on Mozart: it does have a sort of ENFP-style.
    Mozart was definitely ISFP, Haydn was most likely ENFP.
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  5. #25
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    A large portion of Bach's music was written to be played during church, so it isn't surprising that some of it sounds emotionally subdued. On the whole, I don't find his music to be cold; if I did, I wouldn't like it. I think people who describe his music as cold are looking at its level of technical brilliance and jumping to the conclusion that someone who was so good at the technical aspect of music was clearly in it to weave a rigorous structure rather than make an emotional impact.



    This is far from being cold music, technically rigorous though it is.
    There's heat, but I do think it's a Ti kind of heat. (but he could be an INFJ, don't know.) There is such rich complexity in the music... there's so much going on. It's the complexity of everything. It's a "look at the grandeur of creation" kind of heat.
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  6. #26
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Bach was a bully at school, that's more common in ENTx than INTx. I vote for ENTJ. Also, listen to his Toccanta. It's extremley systematic.
    Beethoven expressed all his emotions through his music, e.g. Für Elise. INFJ 4w5 would fit (Fe over Fi).
    Mozart: iSFP 7w6. Definetely Se over Ne. Music is 7ish.
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  7. #27

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    I don't know why people have a tendency to put artists in the "N box" ... Mozart was definitely an ESFP 7, I'd agree that Beethoven sounds like Ni dominant.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Bach was a bully at school, that's more common in ENTx than INTx. I vote for ENTJ. Also, listen to his Toccanta. It's extremley systematic.
    Beethoven expressed all his emotions through his music, e.g. Für Elise. INFJ 4w5 would fit (Fe over Fi).
    I'm not sure that him being a bully indicates much. Maybe Te users are more likely to bully. Beethoven could well have be an INFJ, but he seems more Fi to me.

    Mozart: iSFP 7w6. Definetely Se over Ne. Music is 7ish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I don't know why people have a tendency to put artists in the "N box" ... Mozart was definitely an ESFP 7, I'd agree that Beethoven sounds like Ni dominant.
    I agree on Mozart being an ESFP. The reason for my previous assessement is that he created an amalgamation of different styles in his music, which seems rather Ne.

    Also, there has been a couple of studies done which shows that a large proportion of artists are in fact intuitives. Such types of activity are simply more N-orientated.

  9. #29
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that him being a bully indicates much. Maybe Te users are more likely to bully. Beethoven could well have be an INFJ, but he seems more Fi to me.
    Of course you can't really take it as an argument, but I once read a thread here about bullying and type and the com primarily agreed that ExTx types are most likely to be bullies and INxx are most likely to be victims. Many here had expeirience with it.
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  10. #30
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Mozart, as portrayed by historians was an ESFP. He spread his Se freely and often.

    Considering how nitpicky and perfectionist Bach was, needing to do everything himself, he's pretty Si heavy. He also had a vicious temper and very little patience for others (Te). So, Si as dom or aux. Possibly an ESTJ.

    Beethoven. I can see him as an INTJ. There's some wicked Fi happening with him which points to tert or inferior. The arrogance and lack of social skills also point to INTJ.

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