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The low percentage of INTPs in Western Fantasy and Science Fiction

nightwatcher

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INTPs appear to be under represented in Western fantastic fiction, which often seems to pit INTJs against ENTPs. Why isn’t a character like Light from the Death Note series (who seems clearly INTP to me) so scarce? Forget other types for now and just focus on the NT’s. My “unscientific” type lists of protagonists and antagonists for Western fantasy/sci fi novels, comics, movies, TV series contain an exceedingly high percentage of INTJ’s (number one) and ENTPs (a close second). ENTJs are in the middle, and INTPs are in the cellar. Even if I’ve mistyped some of the characters, I don’t think I’ve gotten enough of them wrong to alter the apparent fact that there are notably fewer INTP main characters than the other types in these stories. (Consider that statistically, NPs outnumber NJs in the “real” world and INJs are the rarest type.). I’m not fluent enough in manga/anime to be certain which types are most common, and wonder if there are more INTPs like Light than you find in Western fiction? The Far East does seem more INTPish than the West (e.g. the cool rationality of Buddhism, which seems Introverted Thinking to me), and perhaps the IT (NP) point of view is more often represented in its fictional characters? I’m trying to remember the main characters from animes like “Ghost in the Shell” and “Akara” that I haven’t seen in years, and I’m not sure of their types.

One possible reason that types whose dominant function is N (INJs and ENPs) are most likely good guys and the villians of fantasy/sci fi is because they are the ones most likely to be drawn to “sorcery”, the “dark arts” and other “N-zone” stuff. It may also be because NJs are more driven to control the environment, whether for “good” or “evil” purposes, while bad guy ENTPs like the Joker and Walter o’Dim (from King’s Dark Tower epic) are primarily motived to create discord and chaos, and INTPs are generally less interested in either.

I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on this topic.
 

Totenkindly

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The most obvious answer is that INTPs make "boring" and ineffectual main characters.

They're not externally active.

Usually they function as a sidekick or sage in a story -- someone who "has insight" into a particular situation.

But they tend not to do much, because they don't want to commit to action, they want to keep things open to observation and continual analysis.

Other character types are far more active within a story line.

As a writer, I need dynamic characters to carry a plot. INTPs are generally NOT that... unless of course they have developed other aspects of their personality and aren't "typical" INTPs.

ISP types are far more active externally (they deal with the sensate world).
IJ types do things, via Fe or Te -- they also act externally.
INFPs get personally involved so they'll be more apt to fight for causes. Again, they choose to participate in the plot.
INTPs "act" by retreating within, observing, and actively building models of reality. Bring ANY of them up and I will bet they play the sage, the observer, the "wise person," the eccentric, etc.

Andrews in the movie "Titanic" -- not a SF/Fan movie -- even fits this. He built the ship, he provides valuable info about it to the main characters, he's kind and considerate to Rose, he seems the most "aware" on the ship, and he shows his consideration of others not by emotional display but by doing logical things, like giving Rose his life vest.

If we cast the Scarecrow in Oz as an INTP, it's rather the same. He acts in an advisory position to Dorothy but really he's just along for the ride.

I will rack my brain for more INTPs in my scifi/fan/comic reading and see what I can come up with.

Yes, your Eastern nod to Buddhism and INTP makes sense, there's a connection there.
 

Geoff

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I think there are an in fact an overrepresentation of INTPs, as with most N's in western fantasy and fiction. Not that it's easy to determine, because people write using caricatures, not real personalities. Often more so in a fantasy world.
 

Haphazard

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INTPs are overrepresented in certain roles (sages and of the like) but aren't usually cast anywhere else. (Nevermind that Light is usually typed as INTJ or even ENTJ).

Well, I mean, main characters are usually introverts, the reason probably twofold -- the writer is usually an introvert himself, and also introverts will tend to cultivate few, close relationships, which lets the writer juggle fewer characters and altogether makes things easier for him.

ISPs usually have an element of badass to them, as ISFPs being more typically heroic and ISTPs being more antiheroes. IJs are more often in supporting roles (unassuming and dependable, especially ISJs) but occasionally get the lead and become a powerful force in moving the story forward. INFPs, like Jennifer says, will have personal stakes in the story so are more likely to get involved.

Which leaves the INTP. That's what I see, anyway.
 

6sticks

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Ender Wiggin from Ender's Game seemed like an INTP when I read it ages ago. I haven't read the other books though, so maybe not.
 

nightwatcher

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Death Note typo correction: L is the probable INTP, Light a probable INTJ.
 

Totenkindly

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... INFPs, like Jennifer says, will have personal stakes in the story so are more likely to get involved.

Typical examples of NFs (and particularly INFPs) in fantasy are Terry Brooks' Shannara series. (I think Brooks is INFP.)

I tried to think of more INTPs in fantasy last night and really couldn't. Often the sage position is given to INTJs (Gandalf, Alannon) because they are more striking characters and get involved in the plot.

I haven't read any Orson Scott Card, really, though. I wouldn't be surprised if he (or Pratchett even?) had more INTP representation.
 

cafe

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Ender Wiggin from Ender's Game seemed like an INTP when I read it ages ago. I haven't read the other books though, so maybe not.
I'm not convinced Ender isn't an F. What type is Bean, do you think?
 

Haphazard

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Death Note typo correction: L is the probable INTP, Light a probable INTJ.

That sounds more normal.

I'm not convinced Ender isn't an F. What type is Bean, do you think?

I've heard for Bean INTJ or INFJ. I don't remember much about that book, though -- too mechanical. Didn't really catch my interest.

I'm trying to think of more INTP characters... I once heard Indiana Jones as INTP, but I'd almost say he's more ISTP. Whatever he is, he's awesome.
 

Night

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Examples of NT characters in movies / pop media -

INTP
Data (Star Trek)
Beast (X-Men)
Nathaniel "Natty" Bumppo / Hawkeye (Last of the Mohicans)
Dr. Bruce Banner (Marvel)
Hank Pym (Marvel)
Gandalf the Grey (LOTR; I disagree with the popular belief that he's INTJ - too serene)
Dr. Ho Yinsen (Marvel / Iron Man)

INTJ
Dr. Strange (Marvel)
Lore (Star Trek)
Magua (Last of the Mohicans)
The Martian Manhunter (DC)
Keyser Soze (The Usual Suspects)

ENTJ
General Maximus Decimus Meridius (Gladiator)
William Wallace (Braveheart)
Sauron (LOTR)
The Borg Queen (ST: TNG)
Khan Noonien Singh (Star Trek)

ENTP
Conan O'Brien (The Simpsons)
Spiderman (Marvel)
Zatanna Zatara (DC)
 

nightwatcher

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Good list. Should make the INTPs feel better (otherwise they'll have to pin their hopes for more notoriety on INTP-typed McCain winning the White House).

The only ones of those I had down were Dr. Strange, Data and Gandolf (who I type as an INTJ). Beast an INTP? That could fit. Spider-Man as ENTP I’ve considered, though sometimes he seems more NF to me; definitely XNXP.

Haven’t thought about Keyser Soze in awhile, but I think you’ve nailed him as an INTJ.
 

Totenkindly

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Good list. Should make the INTPs feel better (otherwise they'll have to pin their hopes for more notoriety on INTP-typed McCain winning the White House).

McCain INTP?

He seems obviously ExTJ to me.

The only ones of those I had down were Dr. Strange, Data and Gandolf (who I type as an INTJ). Beast an INTP? That could fit. Spider-Man as ENTP I've considered, though sometimes he seems more NF to me; definitely XNXP.

Peter Parker, I think, is a pretty clear INFP (and was one that I had in mind when I posted yesterday). I think comic book and serial heroes though are harder to type; sometimes the personality will shift depending on the writer.

I thought of Hank McCoy. He could be IxTP but I'm not sure, he seems very S in some ways. (The "Beast" thing tends to tie him to concrete sensation, so that could be confusing the read.)

Dr. Strange is a pretty snappy dresser for INTP, I must say. He was also a world-renown surgeon; i wonder what the demographics are for INTJ, INTP, and ISTP for world-class surgeons.
 

Night

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Peter Parker, I think, is a pretty clear INFP (and was one that I had in mind when I posted yesterday). I think comic book and serial heroes though are harder to type; sometimes the personality will shift depending on the writer.

I could be wrong. INFP makes sense, too.
 

Nameless Hero

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We have a zaney side to us. Stories starring us should be comedies, due to our lack of hard core short term ambition, and our disinterest in rule following. Almost any SciFi Fantasy with an element of comedy is likely to have an INTP lead character.
 

KDude

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Tim Burton's Alice is a newer NTP character I like. At least, she's seems INTP or less outgoing ENTP.
Fox Mulder is INTP at times
Not fantasy exactly, but Robert Downey Jr.'s Sherlock Holmes is kind of INTP.. or very out of it ISTP.

*At least one* of those stoic Trek characters is an INTP. T'Pol, Seven of Nine, Spock.. Sometimes I'm not sure if that archetype is INTP or INTJ

I don't seem to be very definitive. "At times", "kind of".. :laugh:
 

Cybin

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Not to go way off topic (but I'm going to), you're not the only person I've seen type Tim Burton's Alice as an INTP. Why? She seemed so ridiculously INFP when I was watching it. I don't get it.

I thought RDJ's Sherlock was STP. He seemed extremely oriented to extraverted sensing with such precise attention to detail. His deductive processes struck me as NiTi. Maybe I'll rewatch it...
 

KDude

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Maybe she could be, but it didn't seem like her idealism or values came out to the forefront much. Throughout the story, she's just a skeptic, detached until she's finally faced with the reality that she has to help in order to get home. And even then, she doesn't really form much attachment with anyone per se. She even tells Hatter that's when it's all over, he won't exist. That she knows he isn't real. Depp has this kind of confused, crushed look on his face. It's almost like some blunt moment from Daria.
 

sleepy

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Many years ago since I read these books. But sure there are lots of INTPs in books like George rr martins - a song of ice and fire. Steven Eriksons - Malazan Book of the Fallen. In the dragonlance series, maybe Raistlin. Anne Rise - Lestat with friends.
 
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