• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Bob Dylan

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
And what sort of imagery do you think Dylan would use if he were, hypothetically, an Ni type?
INJs do not usually directly extrovert intuition--although they do so somewhat more overtly in writing--so of course you'd find a lot of implied Ni expressed directly through a judging function.

INFJs, of course communicate via Fe.

Some useful info (also applies to those who mistype George Harrison as an INFJ):

INFJ or INFP? a closer look under "Your Preferred Communication Style"

Both INFPs and ISFP extrovert perceptive statements most of the time.
INFJs extrovert judging, definitive, directive statements.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Do you honestly think you can type based on lyrics??? o_O
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
Bob Dylan- Time Magazine interview

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSzWJ0-r24"]...[/YOUTUBE]

I see clear Fi, Se, and Ni. I relate a lot to him. ISFP.

Messages based on functions-

Se- This is how it actually is; you are imperceptive and you fail.
Ni- What you do is meaningless, everything is meaningless in the end. We will all die and it won't matter.

Ni quote- Each of us thinks we know something, but we all know nothing. None of us know anything.
There are certainly some subtle cues that Bob On Speed is an INFP rather than an ISFP from that interview--the humorous use of metaphor and the big-picture focus. Nevertheless, it's more defensible to mistype Bob as an ISFP than an INFJ as INFPs and ISFPs have far more similar interaction styles. Indeed, because the use of iNtuition is extroverted with INFPs, it's often difficult to tell them apart based on very short snippets of conversation. It's how those perceptive statements are linked (or not linked, in the case of ISFPs) that is key.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I can't tell whether you are actually trying to make a point/argument or not.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
INJs do not usually directly extrovert intuition--although they do so somewhat more overtly in writing--so of course you'd find a lot of implied Ni expressed directly through a judging function.

My implication with that question was that you've mistakenly assumed that vivid imagery of real things is automatically associated with Ne. It's not.

INFJs, of course communicate via Fe.

HINT: ISFP is also an Ni type. Dylan is bursting with Ni, because he's a really smart dude and really intelligent people tend to be proficient in a variety of functions. In the interview that BC posted, he shows Se+Ni when he says that "the real truth would be a picture of a hobo vomiting into a sewer" (Se) "next to a rich business exec in his office building" (Ni.) The direct, guttural impact of seeing a literal, concrete image (Se) + the underlying symbolism created by the contrast between absolute destitution vs. extravagant wealth. (Ni.)

Not to mention the quote BC posted--"We all think we know something, but none of us know anything." That's about as Ni as it gets.

Some useful info (also applies to those who mistype George Harrison as an INFJ):

INFJ or INFP? a closer look under "Your Preferred Communication Style"

Both INFPs and ISFP extrovert perceptive statements most of the time.
INFJs extrovert judging, definitive, directive statements.

Yes, I'm aware that Ps use Pe/Ji and Js use Je/Pi. Can you try an approach other than recounting basic theoretical principles and actually make an argument for why you think Harrison is showing the behaviors you're describing?

Seriously, your entire approach seems to consist of:

1) Declare that you're right,
2) Paste a huge amount of interview content/lyrics,
3) Don't bother to explain anything about how this content demonstrates the functional attitude you're arguing for, and
4) Declare that you're right again.

It's not working very well. You also don't seem to bother responding when others do point out specific instances of use of the functions they see. Why don't you try rebutting some of the real arguments people have made instead of just pasting more lyrics and repeatedly insisting that you're right?


There are certainly some subtle cues that Bob On Speed is an INFP rather than an ISFP from that interview--the humorous use of metaphor and the big-picture focus. Nevertheless, it's more defensible to mistype Bob as an ISFP than an INFJ as INFPs and ISFPs have far more similar interaction styles. Indeed, because the use of iNtuition is extroverted with INFPs, it's often difficult to tell them apart based on very short snippets of conversation. It's how those perceptive statements are linked (or not linked, in the case of ISFPs) that is key.

The only argument you seem to have offered here is that he makes use of "humorous metaphor and big-picture focus." I'm at a complete loss for how you think this indicates Ne+Si over Se+Ni. Ni is digging at the true big picture--all the way down to the absolute bottom of meaning and significance in life. You seem to be implying that ISFPs can't have strong N functions.

After that you've just rambled on about similarities between INFPs and ISFPs without really addressing the issue in question. BC and I are both quite familiar with basic typology theorems; you can stop "informing" us about Typology 101 concepts any time.
 

JTG1984

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
1,477
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Bob Dylan- Time Magazine interview

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSzWJ0-r24"]...[/YOUTUBE]

I see clear Fi, Se, and Ni. I relate a lot to him. ISFP.

Messages based on functions-

Se- This is how it actually is; you are imperceptive and you fail.
Ni- What you do is meaningless, everything is meaningless in the end. We will all die and it won't matter.

Ni quote- Each of us thinks we know something, but we all know nothing. None of us know anything.

That was a great interview! It really made my day thanks.
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
, I'm aware that Ps use Pe/Ji and Js use Je/Pi.
No. You are not, because you do not understand that

1) INFJs extrovert feeling, not intuition
2) Fe is a judging function
3) Judging statements have a very different form than perceptive statements, which is described clearly at the link above.

If you choose not to read that, that's your problem.

Put your ego aside. You could learn a great deal from me. You are choosing not to.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It can be associated with SPs as well, though the form is very different.

Se+Ni can accomplish a lot of the same things as Ne+Si, just through different means. BC and I have made a number of attempts to pinpoint and illustrate Dylan's use of Se and Ni, and so far you've made no real attempt to counter these points except flat contradiction and flooding the thread with rote restatements of basic Jungian concepts and an excess of copy-pasted lyrics.


No. You are not, because you do not understand that

1) INFJs extrovert feeling, not intuition
2) Fe is a judging function
3) Judging statements have a very different form than perceptive statements, which is described clearly at the link above.

If you choose not to read that, that's your problem.

Put your ego aside. You could learn a great deal from me. You are choosing not to.

...great. More Typology 101+flat contradiction.

You're not making a very good case for yourself or any of your type reads.

HINT: Point out specific instances in lyrics or interviews that you think are indicative of the functions you see, and explain why.
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
Se+Ni can accomplish a lot of the same things as Ne+Si, just through different means. BC and I have made a number of attempts to pinpoint and illustrate Dylan's use of Se and Ni, and so far you've made no real attempt to counter these points except flat contradiction and flooding the thread with rote restatements of basic Jungian concepts and an excess of copy-pasted lyrics..
As an INFP, of course, I am not attempting to win an argument with you. I assume you are bright enough to perceive the obvious when I give you a helping hand. What is the area you are confused about? The difference between Ne and Se in conversation/lyrics?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
As an INFP, of course, I am not attempting to win an argument with you. I assume you are bright enough to perceive the obvious when I give you a helping hand. What is the area you are confused about? The difference between Ne and Se in conversation/lyrics?

Why are you posting if you don't wanna win?

I see no clear Ne in conversation. You didn't point out any Ne use.

I especially saw absolutely ZERO Si in that interview; or anywhere in general with Dylan.

Back up your points dude!
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
Why are you posting if you don't wanna win?

I see no clear Ne in conversation. You didn't point out any Ne use.

I especially saw absolutely ZERO Si in that interview; or anywhere in general with Dylan.

Back up your points dude!
You do understand that you don't see Si with NPs, right?
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
As an INFP, of course, I am not attempting to win an argument with you. I assume you are bright enough to perceive the obvious when I give you a helping hand. What is the area you are confused about? The difference between Ne and Se in conversation/lyrics?

The level of misplaced condescension is extraordinary. You're not extending a helping hand; you're just repeatedly restating the same crap, failing to substantiate it, and then pretending you're too superior to address anyone else's concerns.

INFPs don't attempt to win arguments? Is that a bad joke or just delusional? :doh:

For that matter, how sure are you that you're even an INFP? As little as three months ago you apparently thought you were an ISTP, as that was your listed type at the time. You can drop the air of false superiority any time now--nobody is fooled by your gross overstatement of your own experience level and knowledge base.


I see no clear Ne in conversation. You didn't point out any Ne use.

What do you expect? He hasn't pointed out any use of anything. He'd rather revel in misplaced condescension and masturbatory self-assurance that he's right.
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
As little as three months ago you apparently thought you were an ISTP, as that was your listed type at the time. You can drop the air of false superiority any time now--nobody is fooled by your gross overstatement of your own experience level and knowledge base.
Another mistake. You can view all of my posts, you will find that is not the case.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'll get back to this thread when you substantiate your arguments instead of just repeating them. Peace out.
 
Top