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Thread: Bob Dylan

  1. #51
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    xSFP. He was a realist, not a dreamer.

    Have you read "Bob Dylan and Philosophy"??

  2. #52
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    He's very clearly ISFP in my books. Any sort of N mysticism/surreal/philosophical intuitiveness you might see would probably just be the Fi-Ni axis. His vaguely intuitive vibe is common among ISFP's, in my experience. Dylan is very much about the senses. The man had no Ne, and a ton of Fi.

    His words are more about imagery than metaphor. He wants the sounds/images of the words to produce a feeling. He isn't that concerned with deeper, metaphysical meaning in the sense a lot of people thought he was back in the day.

    Even when I read Chronicles, Dylan's autobiography (which is a fantastic book, btw), he talked a lot about what happened on a concrete level, what was said, how he felt, what people looked like, what something sounded like, even the weather--but he didn't really get abstract that much.

    Dylan is very sensitive to his environment and was great at expressing the feelings of his time, but he wasn't trying to be a philosopher. In fact he often said, with a tone of frustration: "there's no message!" when asked about what his surreal lyrics meant in the mid-60s. He identifies more with Elvis than William Blake. Bob Dylan is definitely an in the flesh guy.

    John Lennon is a better example of an 'N' musician of that time.

    As ambivalent as I am about Keirsey, I thought his site did a good job of contrasting Dylan (ISFP) vs. Joan Baez (ENFP).

    http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/bob_dylan.asp

  3. #53
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Fi Dom for sure!

    I thought Joan Baez was way too focused and in the end forceful to be an ENFP. When watching her biography she comes across extremely NFJ. I related a lot to her in her early years until she became pure Fe. She was really forceful and tried to change aspects do Dylan to make him more of a social reactionary. One time Ina social hippie gathering, she took everyone's weed and flushed it down the toilet. Could any ENFP do something like that? She was arrested several times for social causes and her eyes are fiery and intense. Her voice is very relaxed and her musical expression could be any of the NF types, but she had to be an F Dom, and the outward looking aspect to her social conscience makes me think Fe on fire.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #54
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    He's very clearly ISFP in my books. Any sort of N mysticism/surreal/philosophical intuitiveness you might see would probably just be the Fi-Ni axis. His vaguely intuitive vibe is common among ISFP's, in my experience. Dylan is very much about the senses. The man had no Ne, and a ton of Fi.
    To second this, I think about Dylan like I think about Faulkner (who was also ISFP). They're both fairly concrete story-tellers, but there's a fascinatingly organic sorta metaphysics that permeates their work that's pure Fi-logic. Faulkner's whole ethos as an author revolved around "the human heart in conflict with itself", which I feel could just as easily been said about Dylan. There's an instinctual understanding of the individual, what is true about a man, and what he must do next to carry on given where he's come from.

    These artists understood men not just as individuals, but as microcosms of the inexorable forces of the cosmos. Unseen, unspoken, but knowing in the soul itself that as is above, so is below. That's the wisdom of the Ni/Se axis. While an NTJ can point to that dynamic and recognize it conceptually, an SFP simply embodies it. Leverages it, even, without ever understanding why, "It just seems to work."
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  5. #55
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Most websites type him as ISFP. Of course this cant be wrong, because the internets never lie.




    In all seriousness, in inclined to agree.
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

    "I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing."
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Fi Dom for sure!

    I thought Joan Baez was way too focused and in the end forceful to be an ENFP. When watching her biography she comes across extremely NFJ. I related a lot to her in her early years until she became pure Fe. She was really forceful and tried to change aspects do Dylan to make him more of a social reactionary. One time Ina social hippie gathering, she took everyone's weed and flushed it down the toilet. Could any ENFP do something like that? She was arrested several times for social causes and her eyes are fiery and intense. Her voice is very relaxed and her musical expression could be any of the NF types, but she had to be an F Dom, and the outward looking aspect to her social conscience makes me think Fe on fire.
    Yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying. I wasn't all that interested in what type she was, so much as I was trying to contrast a real NF (whatever NF she might be) with Bob. You're probably right, actually. This also reminds me of the vintage SNL sketch called: "Make Joan Baez laugh":

    Announcer: It's time to play America's most challenging show: "Make Joan Baez Laugh"! With our host, Big Bill Franklin!

    Bill Franklin: Thank you, Don Pardo! Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to "Make Joan Baez Laugh"! Before I bring out Joanie - Joan - Miss Baez - Ms. Baez! Whoo! I'd like to point out that tonight is sort of a milestone for us. We're beginning our 9th season, which makes us the longest-running game show in television history! Thank you! We've had over 2,000 amateur and professional comedians on the show trying to make Joan Baez laugh, and so far no one's succeeded. Let's see what our jackpot is up to!

    Announcer: Bill, it's $2,560,000!

    Bill Franklin: Yeah! Over $2.5 million! She's incredible, sin't she? Well, let's bring her out now, the star of our show, Ms. Joan Baez!

    [ Joan Baez walks out sad-faced with her guitar in tow ]

    Joan Baez: [ singing ]
    "Why Chernobyl?
    Why, why, why why?
    Why George Gobol?
    Why, why, why why?
    Why the bombs in Paris?
    Why, why, why why?
    Why did Jean Harris kill that guy?
    Why, pourque, why?"

    Bill Franklin: Oh, boy! Joan, how do you do it? Nine years without evrn cracking a smile?

    Joan Baez: How can anyone laugh, Bill, when there's so much suffering in the world? THe United States is the wealthiest nation on Earth, and yet we still have millions of children who go to bed hungry.
    And on it would go like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    While an NTJ can point to that dynamic and recognize it conceptually, an SFP simply embodies it. Leverages it, even, without ever understanding why, "It just seems to work."
    Yes! I like all of your post, but the concept of embodying that dynamic, is a perfect description of Dylan.

    If you follow his career, you will see he is almost acting out an archetypcal character, he seems to become a human symbol. He started out a the sensitive folkie character and just BECAME the definitive folksinger. Then he goes all hip and electric in the mid-60's and becomes one of those crash-and-burn hedonistic rock Gods. He was clearly the same person, yet seemed radically different. Then in the late 60's he morphed into a country bumpkin, and his lyrics went from amphetamine fueled poetic epics to simple Nashville songcraft. His singing voice and his manner once again shifted radically. And he just kept morphing throughout the ages, representing new ideas, feelings, movements. The man himself never really seemed to give it much thought, but the groups he had become a figurehead of, were devastated/enraged when he moved on to the next thing.

  7. #57
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_priori View Post
    Have you read "Bob Dylan and Philosophy"??
    I have not.

  8. #58
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I have not.
    Haha ya no doubt, I think you guys are right ISFP sounds about right.

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