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  1. #1
    Member nightwatcher's Avatar
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    Default "The Sandman" 7 Endless types

    Destiny ISTJ
    Death ENFP
    Dream INTJ
    Destruction INFP
    Despair ISTJ
    Desire ENTP
    Delirium INFP

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightwatcher View Post
    Destiny ISTJ
    Death ENFP
    Dream INTJ
    Destruction INFP
    Despair ISTJ
    Desire ENTP
    Delirium INFP
    They're archetypes, which means they're not really "whole" personalities. They operate as functions. So I'm looking at the list and can't come up with who would be what with certainty.

    Here are some other guesses though:

    If you ignore the "N" aspect of dreaming and look at how Dream actually runs his kingdom, he's very much an ISTJ ruler. He needs things to be in their place, he values dependability, he hates taking risk, he likes having everything predefined, and he has trouble leaving old responsibilities behind.

    His sister Death is more freeform and has a very wise ENFJ approach to people. Delirium interacts like an ENFP on crack.

    Destruction changed from an extroverted mode into a contemplative. If you go with how normal people change over their lives, this is a typical extroverted process, where later in life they learn to dig deeper and find the inner core. This still leaves him as an extrovert according to theory, although as portrayed he behaves more like the I in some ways.

    Desire could easily still be S in terms of her carnality, even if she's dealing with the abstraction of desire. (She schemes and imagines a future, but not with as clear vision; she's very anchored in what is happening right in the moment and playing with that.)

    Destiny's tough, the most inhuman of the seven, he just seems to describe what is and what might be; it's hard to tell if this is an IST or an INT mindset. And Despair's just morbid and has no hope for the future (not much N there).


    Perhaps if you'd want another view on things, look at what the Endless each define, not what they represent? (For example, "Dreams" define "reality" according to the text.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Member nightwatcher's Avatar
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    Deities are both personalities and archetypes, fictional characters who happen to be gods (in the series the Endless are not precisely gods, but in effect, they are). Yes, gods are archetypes, but in mythology they often possess human personalities and flaws and the Endless are no exception. I’m not saying they aren’t dicey to type, but so are many fictional characters.

    Yes, Dream frequently behaves like an ISTJ, and he’s at least part ISTJ, but I think overall he’s more big picture with strongly developed IS. He has to be to oversee his vast realm.

    Death ENFJ? I think she's almost certainly a P, very much the opposite of her uptight J brother, Dream. For him it’s all about duty, but she’s having fun. She’s very playful and upbeat, the kind of person you’d want to be your own midwife into the afterlife (to paraphrase Gaiman). Her whole attitude and outlook just seems very ENFPish to me, the polar opposite of ITJ Dream.

    Delirium an ENFP on crack? Hmmm, maybe some ENFP crackheads who are also Sandman geeks could weigh in on that....

    I can certainly see the ES in Desire, but he/she’s also like a trickster ENTP with a talent for getting under an uptight ITJ like Dream's skin.

  4. #4
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Going by the archetype suggestion:

    Destiny: Introvert Sensate
    Dream: Introvert Sensate
    Death: Extrovert Feeler
    Destruction: Introvert Feeler
    Despair: Introvert Feeler
    Desire: Extrovert Sensate
    Delirium: Extrovert Intuitive
    Not really.

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightwatcher View Post
    Yes, Dream frequently behaves like an ISTJ, and he's at least part ISTJ, but I think overall he's more big picture with strongly developed IS. He has to be to oversee his vast realm.
    Meh. That's like saying any ruler or CEO has to be an N to "oversee their vast realm." That is very dangerous territory to move into... because I don't think it holds up.

    If you look at how he thinks, how he responds to people, what he prioritizes, what he values. Very much into creating his little fortress and buttressing it against intrusion. Very critical and scathing of his staff if they abandon their responsibilities. Unforgiving. Very literal.

    (And I do think we need to go back to the younger Dream as reference -- we are given ample opportunity to do so when we watch his interactions with Hob and with his son Orpheus and even with Calliope. He's not the same Dream he used to be ... he's more complex. hence, to get a better picture of his original inclinations, we have to go back.)

    Death ENFJ? I think she's almost certainly a P, very much the opposite of her uptight J brother, Dream. For him it's all about duty, but she's having fun. She’s very playful and upbeat, the kind of person you'd want to be your own midwife into the afterlife (to paraphrase Gaiman). Her whole attitude and outlook just seems very ENFPish to me, the polar opposite of ITJ Dream.
    Well, I wouldn't call it a completely wrong turn. I think ENFx is something we can agree on. I'm not sure. When I think of the RL ENFJ women I've known and compare them to the ENFP women I know, Death aligns far more closely with the ENFJs.

    Remember, ENFP and ENFJ aren't even the same functions even if they look the same.

    ENFP = Ne + Fi + Te + Si
    ENFJ = Fe + Ni + Se + Ti

    Death does not think in terms of ping-pongy possibilities, grounded by her personal values.

    Instead, she's ALL about connecting with the person she is taking. She talks to them in a way that conveys love/connection/, and she basically gives them a "new spin" on their lives. She totally steps into their world (that's her using her underlying Ni) in order to connect with them (Fe) -- exactly what the ENFJ does.

    The playfulness you note could be chalked up to Se (again, it's supporting her Fe, she plays as part of connecting). Imagine the response of sensors and intuitives to her "playfulness" -- it's almost flirty. She's playing around on a more tangible and sensible level, not just being wacky like N's tend to get.

    And since she's a mature character (unlike Morpheus, who is still in heavy development), her Ti is there too for her to use to understand and explain things logically to the people she's greeting.

    The four ENFP functions don't seem to mesh nearly as well.

    Make any sense?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Member nightwatcher's Avatar
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    Good points about the Dream Lord; at least your not trying to convince me that he’s an INTP. I’m not quite ready to call him an ISTJ, but I won’t say it’s outside the “realm” of possibility. I’ll accept the ITJ compromise. It’s definitely ironic that a Saturn figure like that rules the Dream Realm.

    You do well in presenting the type mathematics for your case about Death being ENFJ. But her ability to connect and empathize with people one on one seems IF to me, and the way she augments that with “new spin” could be EN as well. She seems more P to me than J overall; there’s really not an uptight bone in her body, such as it is, and she has that fluidity of a P, the way she just flows. She actually reminds me of ENFPs I’ve known as you say she reminds you of ENFJs. Fascinating, as Spock would say.

    The difference between EN and IN by the way, would be a good thread topic. According to Lenore Thompson (from her book “Personality Type an Owner’s Manuel”) PET scan research has located what I call the Twilight Zone of IN in the left hemisphere of the brain and EN in the right. Essentially, according to this theory, all P functions (IF, ES, IT, EN) are in the right cerebral hemisphere and all J functions (IN, IS, ET, EF) are in the left. I used to think that SJs were left brain, NPs and SPs right brain and NJs a mix of the two, but this reasearch suggests that NJs are also left brain. “Split brain” people would instead be those who are very close on J and P. So if Death is a J, she’s left brain (according this theory), and if a P, she’s more right brain (not that she has a physical brain, exactly, but she must have some kind of mystical DNA that determines her type; we’d have to consult Gaiman’s muse to be certain). She strikes me as being more right brain, but definitely not the flaky type, and yes, very sensible, but that doesn’t rule out the ENFP set of functions, does it? And if Dream is an ISTJ, then Death being an ENFP makes her his precise opposite, which seems to fit.

  7. #7
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    As in death's case,
    who is superficially my favorite{having not read the series at all}
    i would suffice to say that taking the nature of the intuition is the most lucid argument

    Ex. Death (DC Comics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    "
    One day every century, Death lives (and dies) as a mortal, in order to understand the value of the life she takes. She does this by merging herself with a mortal fated to die that day. At the end of Death: The High Cost of Living her Endless self briefly converses with the merged being that is the mortal host and her Endless self. "

    as for the muse for such a character....

    " Later that day, Dave McKean and I went to dinner in Chelsea at the My Old Dutch Pancake House and the waitress who served us was a kind of vision. She was American, had long black hair, was dressed entirely in black — black jeans, T-shirt, etc. — and wore a big silver ankh on a silver necklace. And she looked exactly like Mike Dringenberg's drawing of Death. "

    could it be argued that due to the nature of the functions
    INFJ's are the introverted version of ENFP's
    and that ENFJ's are the extroverted version of INFP's ?
    I N V I C T U S

  8. #8
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I've read all the comics, and the only Endless I ever felt comfortable typing are:

    Death: ENFJ
    Delirium: ENFP
    and maybe Desire is an ESFP, but I wont bet money on that one.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightwatcher View Post
    Destiny ISTJ
    Death ENFP
    Dream INTJ
    Destruction INFP
    Despair ISTJ
    Desire ENTP
    Delirium INFP

    all these correct except death. death avatar chick is right: enfj.

  10. #10
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    Interesting. I see Destruction as an ENTP - but close to the F line. I don't think Destiny is a J, I see him as a P. J's are doers, and Destiny sees no reason why he should get things done, because all will be done in time. And Dream, well, come on, when he makes it storm in his realm when he gets dumped, that's an F for ya! Now, the NEW dream might be an INTP.
    And delirium, well, she's an extrovert I think. I also agree with Death as an ENFP and Desire as an ENTP.

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