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  1. #81
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    Anya is another character whose type depends on her *incarnation.* In flashbacks of her as Aud (human for the 1st time) she seems like an ISFJ. As Anyanka, who the hell knows. As Anya and human for the second time a thousand years later, she acts a lot like an ESTJ. It makes sense to be that this transformation would take place because she had spent a thousand years doing the vengeance thing. It would be hard to stay a Feeler through all that, but I actually think she turned T the second her troll of a husband cheated on her and she accepted her new um, way of life.

  2. #82
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    I'm sorry. I gotta rant about Spike again. HOW can he be anything but an NF?? Again, I keep thinking you haven't watched past season 3. As a human, he was a crybaby poet who thought this "effulgent" (lol) girl named Cecily was his one and only reason for living. In season 6, he's CONSTANTLY arguing with Buffy about love. He's always going on and on about love being this painful thing "that burns" and that if it doesn't, you're doing it wrong. Buffy responds with some stuff about love being safe and predictable, and Spike just about loses his mind. Even back in season 3 before the chip helps him tap back into more of his humanity, he's obsessed with the idea of SOUL MATES. Everything he does is for Dru. Dru eventually leaves him because her intuition tells her that Spike's true soul mate is actually BUFFY.
    Just because he's a smooth talker with gelled hair, doesn't mean he's a Promoter lulz.

    Edit: holy crap! I forgot the most OBVIOUS example!
    Spike is the only damn vamp in history to actually go get his soul back, the hard way, and because he wanted to!!!
    Who but an NF? an extreme NF at that. He was literally trying to put the SOUL back in soulmate with that one.

  3. #83
    Member wistfulwillow's Avatar
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    Thank you for the lovely Spike rant! You make some very vital points, and with those examples, it's hard to see him as anything but an NF. However, at other times, he gives off a hardcore SP vibe. Perhaps Spike is a true INFP, masking himself as an ESTP. Which shouldn't be too hard considering he's a 200-year-old, soulless (prior to season 7) vampire, and the natural order of his cognitive functions is probably way out of wack.
    What do you type Spike as enneagram wise?
    My best guess would be 4w3 or 7w8 sx/sp.

    Oh, also crazy Spike, just after getting his soul back, seems extremely INFP-ish (which is now a word).
    4w5-5w4-1w2 sp/sx
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    “The only way out of the labyrinth of suffering is to forgive.”
    ― John Green

  4. #84
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    Default spike enneagram

    As a human, definitely 4w5. The scene where he's at the party about to read his shitastic poem is the perfect microcosmic scene of the little William that was. (And of course, I kind of argue, is who he remains despite losing his soul. easter eggs throughout the series to support this.)
    As a soul-less vamp, he does seem to have a 7w8 mask in the early seasons. But I can't shake the feeling that that 4w5 is still under there. Spike is an EXCELLENT observer. He has wonderful peer-into-your-soul monologues throughout the series, even when "evil." (I don't think he ever really is.) There are several episodes where he has even just one liners which seem to peer into the souls of the main characters and throw the truth in their faces. I can't remember the lines anymore, but I remember this happening in the episode where he's wearing Xander's ugly shirt and Willow and Xander are babysitting him because he keeps trying to kill himself. Kill himself- haha. typical 4's and their suicidal tendencies.
    the 4 dominance for him (despite being the Romantic he obviously is) means that 99% of his 'observations' are relationship related. He rarely cares about anything else. Most of his "evil" schemes are just that - ways to end up around Buffy.

    Another interesting note to support my hypoth, in season 3, when he comes back to try and force Willow to do a love spell for him to get Dru back, he watches Angel and Buffy give each other sad puppy looks and then delivers a truly great speech about love and how they will never ever be friends. He echoes this perspective practically verbatim years later, right before he goes off to win his soul back.

    I could probably think of so much more. Spike just oozes emotional goop; which even Angel makes fun of him for. But he doesn't give a f* - he just says he's glad he can admit that shiz - and THAT makes him a man.

  5. #85
    Member wistfulwillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pansophie View Post
    As a human, definitely 4w5. The scene where he's at the party about to read his shitastic poem is the perfect microcosmic scene of the little William that was. (And of course, I kind of argue, is who he remains despite losing his soul. easter eggs throughout the series to support this.)
    As a soul-less vamp, he does seem to have a 7w8 mask in the early seasons. But I can't shake the feeling that that 4w5 is still under there. Spike is an EXCELLENT observer. He has wonderful peer-into-your-soul monologues throughout the series, even when "evil." (I don't think he ever really is.) There are several episodes where he has even just one liners which seem to peer into the souls of the main characters and throw the truth in their faces. I can't remember the lines anymore, but I remember this happening in the episode where he's wearing Xander's ugly shirt and Willow and Xander are babysitting him because he keeps trying to kill himself. Kill himself- haha. typical 4's and their suicidal tendencies.
    the 4 dominance for him (despite being the Romantic he obviously is) means that 99% of his 'observations' are relationship related. He rarely cares about anything else. Most of his "evil" schemes are just that - ways to end up around Buffy.

    Another interesting note to support my hypoth, in season 3, when he comes back to try and force Willow to do a love spell for him to get Dru back, he watches Angel and Buffy give each other sad puppy looks and then delivers a truly great speech about love and how they will never ever be friends. He echoes this perspective practically verbatim years later, right before he goes off to win his soul back.

    I could probably think of so much more. Spike just oozes emotional goop; which even Angel makes fun of him for. But he doesn't give a f* - he just says he's glad he can admit that shiz - and THAT makes him a man.
    I definitely see the 4 in Spike (with the adorable, inconsistent 7w8 mask, especially in season 2 and parts of season 4), but I'm curious as to why you say 5 wing over 3 wing.
    Another example of his 4-ness/NF-ness, remember the episode, in season 4 I think, where Spike emotionally manipulates the Scooby gang in an attempt to distance them from Buffy? Yeah, he's like a high school girl. And it's awesome. I don't think a true ESTP 7w8 could pull that off so beautifully.
    4w5-5w4-1w2 sp/sx
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    ― John Green

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wistfulwillow View Post
    Yeah, he's like a high school girl. And it's awesome. I don't think a true ESTP 7w8 could pull that off so beautifully.
    totally. And haha, in the episode I'm currently watching, Giles says something to Buffy about how Willow is coping so well after Oz leaving. And Buffys like yeah, she's doing great. And Spike says:
    "What are you people blind? She's hangin on by a thread. Any ninny could see that."
    No Spike, only an NF.

    One more thing: his ongoing obsession and attachment to the old NBC show, Passions. hahahahahah. I can't even FATHOM my ISTP husband watching that. He'd rather stick his head in the oven.

  7. #87
    Member wistfulwillow's Avatar
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    One more thing: his ongoing obsession and attachment to the old NBC show, Passions. hahahahahah. I can't even FATHOM my ISTP husband watching that. He'd rather stick his head in the oven.
    Spike watching Passions with Joyce! So, so adorable.
    I think soaps are kind of an NF thing, I was addicted to One Life to Live (an ABC show) for a time.
    4w5-5w4-1w2 sp/sx
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  8. #88
    Member inebriato's Avatar
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    How is Angel and ENFJ? Because no way Angelus is an ISTP. Angelus is an Te dom and Angel is an Fi dom. Yes, Angel/Angelus are still alike, but that makes more sense for him to change to ENTJ - ISFP than ENTJ - ENFJ. The cognitive functions just don't match up.

    ENTJ
    Te - Ni - Se - Fi
    ISFP
    Fi - Se - Ni - Te
    ENFJ
    Fe - Ni - Se - Ti

    How his judging functions change, I would like to know.

    I don't believe Spike is an ISTP either, he is an ENFJ he puts on the ISTP act around Angel/Angelus.
    6w7.

  9. #89
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    Spike's a Thinker? Are you kidding me? He's Fi all over! I always saw him as an ENFP, I could agree on ESFP (maybe I'm judgemental, but to me ESFPs really tend to hide their true sensitivity behind a mask of being so cool). But no IxTx, please. Watch:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLXIC-yQ384

    He's ALWAYS hurt, when he's in love with Dru, when he's in love with Buffy, when he's not in love with Buffy. He's also very emotionally expressive, a wild child, a crazy punk guy. He is able to be cruel, but not because of power issues or ambition. His cruelty is always based on emotions: hatred, revenge for being hurt or the most important thing: for fun! In the episode when Drusilla breaks up with him, he explains to Scooby Gang every now and then how killing people is fun. His memories about killing with Drusilla are romantic and nostalgic He's not a cold-hearted villain, he's really a punk who loves great fun and because he's a vampire, he doesn't have certain social limitations like not killing people.

    Compare to Angelus: he kills others to make Buffy suffer because she's his enemy. Spike doesn't rationalize his killing and he doesn't do it to make others feel something, it's all about him and his entertainment. If he's not killing for protection, he's hurting people as in a game with very extended rules. He loves a good game and therefore the slayer competition thing.

    Maybe previous T typings were based on a common misconception that all Feelers are gentle, altruistic and lovely beings. If someone kills for fun, well, he can't be a Feeler, can he, because Feelers are oh so nice. Nothing like that. I'm an INFP and I'm often agressive for fun (harmless stuff & bdsm), but if I was a vampire... man, I would kill and destroy. And the cynicism? Fellers can be cynical, too. Maybe not the most healthy ones, but being sarcastic is not an exclusive Thinking trait.

    Oh, and another scene: Spike posing and playing for Andrew. Can you tell me that was not ExFP?

    If Spike had to work for a living, he would totally be an actor or a rockman. He would find most introverted and thinking professions deeply boring. He loves socializing and attention. He feels lonely without any group, that's why he joins the vampire gang in season 1, that's why he takes Harmony as a roommate, it's obvious he hates her, but he just needs some company more.

  10. #90
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    thanks for the back-up!!

    I honestly think that all those "spike is an ESTP" posters just didn't watch enough Buffy to give their opinions, instead of being bad typers. A lot of people only watch the first 3 seasons. Although, it would still be hard to not see him as a F, even just watching the early seasons

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