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  1. #91
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Spike is cool-headed, anlytical, don't take people's feelings seriously, is cynical, manipulative and sarcastic. He is an ESTP. He is Fe, not Fi.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  2. #92
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    ok... it is a little frustrating when a bunch of people provide evidence for something and then someone like this ^^ just comes in and makes a blanket statement, with absolutely no evidence OR regard for the previous arguments.

    its like: "A"
    "no B, because 1, 2, and 3."
    "and 4, and 5, and 6."

    "NO A!!!"

    "where do we go from here?"

  3. #93
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    Default oh sorry..

    you DID throw out a few general adjectives.
    that counts for......... nothing.

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    So, Speed, just to make it easy:

    I'm sorry. I gotta rant about Spike again. HOW can he be anything but an NF?? Again, I keep thinking you haven't watched past season 3. As a human, he was a crybaby poet who thought this "effulgent" (lol) girl named Cecily was his one and only reason for living. In season 6, he's CONSTANTLY arguing with Buffy about love. He's always going on and on about love being this painful thing "that burns" and that if it doesn't, you're doing it wrong. Buffy responds with some stuff about love being safe and predictable, and Spike just about loses his mind. Even back in season 3 before the chip helps him tap back into more of his humanity, he's obsessed with the idea of SOUL MATES. Everything he does is for Dru. Dru eventually leaves him because her intuition tells her that Spike's true soul mate is actually BUFFY.
    Just because he's a smooth talker with gelled hair, doesn't mean he's a Promoter lulz.

    Edit: holy crap! I forgot the most OBVIOUS example!
    Spike is the only damn vamp in history to actually go get his soul back, the hard way, and because he wanted to!!!
    Who but an NF? an extreme NF at that. He was literally trying to put the SOUL back in soulmate with that one. He has wonderful peer-into-your-soul monologues throughout the series, even when "evil." (I don't think he ever really is.) There are several episodes where he has even just one liners which seem to peer into the souls of the main characters and throw the truth in their faces. I can't remember the lines anymore, but I remember this happening in the episode where he's wearing Xander's ugly shirt and Willow and Xander are babysitting him because he keeps trying to kill himself. Kill himself- haha. typical 4's and their suicidal tendencies.
    the 4 dominance for him (despite being the Romantic he obviously is) means that 99% of his 'observations' are relationship related. He rarely cares about anything else. Most of his "evil" schemes are just that - ways to end up around Buffy.

    Another interesting note to support my hypoth, in season 3, when he comes back to try and force Willow to do a love spell for him to get Dru back, he watches Angel and Buffy give each other sad puppy looks and then delivers a truly great speech about love and how they will never ever be friends. He echoes this perspective practically verbatim years later, right before he goes off to win his soul back.
    Another example of his 4-ness/NF-ness, remember the episode, in season 4 I think, where Spike emotionally manipulates the Scooby gang in an attempt to distance them from Buffy? Yeah, he's like a high school girl. And it's awesome. I don't think a true ESTP 7w8 could pull that off so beautifully. totally. And haha, in the episode I'm currently watching, Giles says something to Buffy about how Willow is coping so well after Oz leaving. And Buffys like yeah, she's doing great. And Spike says:
    "What are you people blind? She's hangin on by a thread. Any ninny could see that."
    No Spike, only an NF.

    One more thing: his ongoing obsession and attachment to the old NBC show, Passions. hahahahahah. I can't even FATHOM my ISTP husband watching that. He'd rather stick his head in the oven. He's ALWAYS hurt, when he's in love with Dru, when he's in love with Buffy, when he's not in love with Buffy. He's also very emotionally expressive, a wild child, a crazy punk guy. He is able to be cruel, but not because of power issues or ambition. His cruelty is always based on emotions: hatred, revenge for being hurt or the most important thing: for fun! In the episode when Drusilla breaks up with him, he explains to Scooby Gang every now and then how killing people is fun. His memories about killing with Drusilla are romantic and nostalgic He's not a cold-hearted villain, he's really a punk who loves great fun and because he's a vampire, he doesn't have certain social limitations like not killing people.

    Compare to Angelus: he kills others to make Buffy suffer because she's his enemy. Spike doesn't rationalize his killing and he doesn't do it to make others feel something, it's all about him and his entertainment. If he's not killing for protection, he's hurting people as in a game with very extended rules. He loves a good game and therefore the slayer competition thing.



    Courtesy of a bunch of posters, including myself.

    Can you actually respond to any of these strong pieces of evidence, without blanket statements and HIGHLY general adjectives that superficially attach themselves to the type you think he is?

  5. #95
    Member wistfulwillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Spike is cool-headed, anlytical, don't take people's feelings seriously, is cynical, manipulative and sarcastic. He is an ESTP. He is Fe, not Fi.
    Pansophie, I still agree with you completely. I think Spike is an INFP.
    Speed Gavroche, how is Spike at all cool-headed? He's incredibly rash, and his decisions are nearly always based upon his mercurial feelings. For example, his decision to get his soul back. That certainly was not the logical, rational thing to do. He felt inclined to do so because of a strong, emotional conviction--a quest for redemption.
    Cynical, manipulative, and sarcastic, yes. A 200-year-old vampire is bound to be a cynic, after seeing humans repeatedly fucking up in the same ways for centuries. Spike is quite emotionally manipulative, as can be seen in season 4's The Yoko Factor, which is an NF trait. Although NF's generally don't use their creepily accurate perception of what other's are feeling to harm, soulless Spike had no qualms doing so. As for sarcasm, who said ESTPs are the only sarcastic type? I'm an INFJ, and happen to be incredibly sarcastic!
    Why do you think Spike is Fe instead of Fi? I'd like to hear your reasons--I'm sure there are plenty of instances in which his Fe is evident, I just can't think of any right now.
    From the results of my favorite cognitive functions test:
    Fe: "Connect with people by sharing values and taking on their needs as yours"
    Fi: "Evalute situations and choose what you believe is congruent with your personal identity"
    I've rarely seen Spike take interest in the needs of other, but he's all about establishing himself and his beliefs according to his sense of identity. Spike doesn't feel lost with the chip in his head simply because he misses killing; he feels lost because violence became a part of his identity, and defined who he was for many years. When Spike falls in love, he refuses to believe that he isn't loved back, because he sees the women he loves as a part of his identity. He needs others to adhere to his own personal identity, and will go to the extremes to force them (kidnapping Willow to make Drusilla love him, threatening the initiative doctor to to get the chip out, raping Buffy to make her love him). This trait reeks of unhealthy Fi.

    All this being said, typing fictional characters is by no means a science. I'm just having a bit of fun, and these are my opinions, not facts. I'd be interested in hearing from someone why they think Spike is an ESTP.
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  6. #96
    Member wistfulwillow's Avatar
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    Also, last night I finished season 7. Finally. My heart is broken. What am I supposed to do now? Something productive?
    4w5-5w4-1w2 sp/sx
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  7. #97
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    Default i know what you should do

    Read Buffy Season 8, in comic book form!

  8. #98
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    You never noticed Spike taking an interest in the needs of others? I saw it a lot! Maybe you just didn't notice.. remember when Buffy had just learned about her mother being really sick? and Spike came over to her house with a gun pretending like he was gonna finally kill her? And when he saw her face, his heart just melted, and he sat down next to her and gave her a pat??? And then he continued to sit with her for an implied long period of time in silence because he knew she needed it? That is beyond weird for a soul less vampire. Only an NFP soul less thing would be even remotely capable of such a moment.
    I'm sure I could think of more but I have to go to downstairs to my shop right now

    btw, I feel fully comfy stating that Spike is an NFP as fact
    The evidence is catastrophically huge.
    Joss Whedon is a master at creating dynamic, yet psychologically consistent characters. They develop just as they would if they were to exist in real life.
    Willow is another great example of this as an INFJ.

  9. #99
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    Yes, I do plan on getting the comics, as I've heard they're quite good.

    I agree that Spike takes interest in the needs of others, but I think he's more focused on finding his identity and being true to his morals than taking care of people. I believe he helps people not just because it's right, but because he needs to in order to stay true to himself. Basically, Fi over Fe (for the most part).

    I'm as confident as I can be that he is an NFP, but at the same time, I think typology itself has many gray areas, and am never completely convinced.

    Also, if you'd be so obliged, I'd love to hear why you think Willow is an INFJ. I see a lot of evidence pointing towards Fi, and a lot pointing towards Ni, so I'm a bit confused on her type. And INFx just doesn't do.
    4w5-5w4-1w2 sp/sx
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  10. #100
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    Default willow

    Dark Willow.

    End of story.

    haha ok just kidding.


    Superficially speaking, (seems like the right place to start) I think Willow embodies the INFJ because it is the type most likely to "bump auras" with the mystical, double pun definitely intended. haha!
    "I don't think Buffy would like the dark arts bumpin' auras with the little-ist Summers" -Willow
    Joss is a master at planning things years in advance, and I really do think he meant this statement to be a foreshadowy little ironic easter egg.
    Anyways, Willow displays supernatural talents as far back as season 2 when she performs the high level gypsy spell/curse to give Angel back his soul. At this point in her development, she literally had no other reason for thinking she could accomplish this besides her intuition. She has sudden intuition hot flashes a lot throughout the series. Over the next couple of seasons, we see this grow and culminate in the emergence of "Dark Willow." I don't know if this is a common thing or not (attributed to INFJ's), but in my opinion this is the type most likely to, when going off the deep end, turn to the "dark side." Of course this can be represented a bunch of different ways, in varying degrees.
    I (vs E) is a hard thing to represent in a show featuring a group of characters, but I think it is implied Willow especially at the start of the show, when her shyness and awkwardness is portrayed. She also only seems to have one friend and gets along better with computers until she meets OZ. She grows more into herself when she finally gets out of high school and into college, where there are more people around who care about learning.
    It would be easy to say that Willow is awesome at computers, science and math and therefore she MUST be an NT, but I think this is ultimately a mistake. Someone could be really intelligent and have strong thinking or logical abilities and still be an F. It comes down to decision-making, right? Time and time again we see Willow following her heart when it comes to making choices. She only likes to do things if she wants to do them, as has a hard time forcing herself if she doesn't feel like it.
    What part did you want me to back up exactly? As a big fan of the show, I'm sure I could conjure up anecdotal evidence and specific scenes for whatever variable you wish.

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