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  1. #21
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    "Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is." ?yoda
    Okay, this one sounds kinda Ni because he's telling Luke to let go of the assumption that death is bad. Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    "Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side." ?yoda
    This sounds more Fi/Ne to me. "Look what will happen if you don't stay in touch with and in control of your emotions."

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    "Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." ?Yoda to Luke
    Same as above; he's warning Luke to stay true to his feelings and avoid negative feelings that could send him down the wrong path. I don't see what's Ni about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    these sound like traditional Ni wisdom if I understand correctly. Although there are also external connections Yoda makes in leaps (Ne). The force involves the ultimate connection and flow of all things, but it also enables hints of relations with processes and objects and the unfolding of events over time before they happen. The force also deals with visions and mental imagery, which is also pretty Ni. Although this does not make a force user more likely to use Ni than Ne and vice versa, it does accommodate the means of both. Overall the force is entirely N, but I'd say the concept appears very Ne, while the underlying uses and applications of the force would seem very Ni.
    Well the force could be used by an Ni or Ne person, but the concept of the force itself seems pretty Ne (as you said.) I think the wisdom imparted above by Yoda, though, sounds a lot more Fi+Ne in nature.

    The force itself doesn't seem to tell anyone what's going to happen--even the masters of the force, the top Jedi, were unable to detect an international conspiracy to overthrow the old Republic and create the empire. None of them were able to predict that Anakin would turn to the dark side.

    And are you sure these visions and mental imagery are direct results of the force? It seems like they're mostly just the Ni of Ni-oriented people, regardless of whether or not the force is doing anything for them.

    I would argue that the only people who apply the force in an Ni way are Ni users (like Obi-Wan) who are already predisposed to Ni means of perception.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #22
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    I think you guys are right that Yoda was an INFx...thanks for peeing all over my ENFJ parade.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
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    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  3. #23
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    How can the force be a Ne concept? Is gravity a Ne concept too?
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  4. #24
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    How can the force be a Ne concept? Is gravity a Ne concept too?
    I'd call gravity more of an Se concept, but we're speaking kind of abstractly here. There's no way to be sure.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #25
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'd call gravity more of an Se concept, but we're speaking kind of abstractly here. There's no way to be sure.


    Damn, that's^ funny.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  6. #26
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Well, gravity has an immediate and observable impact that's always felt in a directly physical way. That sounds kind of Se to me.

    The force is a better metaphor for Ne because it's a kind of abstract interconnection between things in the outer world that isn't as concretely obvious.


    P.S.,

    My observation of these abstract relationships between unrelated contexts is in itself quite Ne. Make sense? ^_^
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #27
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    This sounds more Fi/Ne to me. "Look what will happen if you don't stay in touch with and in control of your emotions."
    I'll agree with the Fi behind it. Possibly Ne as well, but this quote seems like more of a foreboding revelation than just playing with connections seasoned with tasty grains of personal value.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Same as above; he's warning Luke to stay true to his feelings and avoid negative feelings that could send him down the wrong path. I don't see what's Ni about this.
    Alright, that makes sense enough then.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Well the force could be used by an Ni or Ne person, but the concept of the force itself seems pretty Ne (as you said.) I think the wisdom imparted above by Yoda, though, sounds a lot more Fi+Ne in nature.
    I'm pretty convinced Yoda is an Fi user as you've said his values go. His wisdom is able to make connections (Ne), but he is also able to reflect and produce obscure suggestions that can help predict unfolding events (Ni). He's a 900 year old Jedi though, is it fair enough to say both his intuitive functions are equally well developed?

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    The force itself doesn't seem to tell anyone what's going to happen--even the masters of the force, the top Jedi, were unable to detect an international conspiracy to overthrow the old Republic and create the empire. None of them were able to predict that Anakin would turn to the dark side.
    yeah, the Force isn't exactly a cheat code (if it was the plot would've been incredibly shallow and there wouldn't have been war). However, the force offers mysterious and cryptic ways to help detect stirs within the network of the force.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    And are you sure these visions and mental imagery are direct results of the force? It seems like they're mostly just the Ni of Ni-oriented people, regardless of whether or not the force is doing anything for them.
    as mentioned above, the force provides the means to access visions and premonitions more readily. Think of it as a tap faucet for the intuitive functions. Not all Jedi were Ns, nor did they necessarily have to be intuitives to gain the benefit of it. In fact, you'd likely hone in on Se and Si to master the physical sensory effects of the force. All of the perceiving functions play a role on different levels (as it should be noted there were different roles for the jedi).

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I would argue that the only people who apply the force in an Ni way are Ni users (like Obi-Wan) who are already predisposed to Ni means of perception.
    I don't believe function use to be that exclusive. Although I'll say if they're already predisposed to Ni over Ne and vice versa, that is likely the first perceiving function they will use when tapping into the force. I think to effectively use the force in its entirety you'd need to utilize and develop both N functions (at some point)

  8. #28
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Well I won't turn this thread into another debate about it; suffice it to say I believe we only use four functions, so in my interpretation Yoda would have to be using either Ne or Ni, but not both.

    Anyway your other points sound fine though.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #29
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Well I won't turn this thread into another debate about it; suffice it to say I believe we only use four functions, so in my interpretation Yoda would have to be using either Ne or Ni, but not both.
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding your view of the application of mbti/the functions, but I don't understand how this would work. Don't you use all of the functions? I'm no Se poster boy but I still need it to do a lot of activities and things.

    I sort of view the 8 functions as being bars on a graph, but that's mainly because I don't believe anyone completely fits the function order of their type (as noted by many people's function order displays in their sigs).

  10. #30
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't understand how this would work. Don't you use all of the functions? I'm no Se poster boy but I still need it to do a lot of activities and things.

    I sort of view the 8 functions as being bars on a graph, but that's mainly because I don't believe anyone completely fits the function order of their type (as noted by many people's function order displays in their sigs).
    If you want to discuss this in PM or via wall posts, contact me on one of those.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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