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  1. #271
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fripping View Post
    yoda is type PPPT. he's a god damn puppet.

    Uhhh, the tree talked back.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #272
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Haha, you crack me up. I guess you realize I was taking the piss. I'd like to hear one of your stupid connections, please.
    I've seen some much bullshit posted here that what you posted could totally have been serious. So if it was a joke, it was not obvious.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  3. #273
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Her post can be summarized as "thinkers can be emotionals too".Which actually make my point since the few emotional side of Yoda are coherent with his INTPness.
    Yeah... actually... I'd sum it up as "Yoda is not necessarily a T because he advocates lack of strong emotionality." But now you've just gone from saying that Yoda doesn't advocate emotions so he's a T, to Yoda is emotional sometimes and that is coherent with his Tness. I feel like you just kind of agreed with my argument and now are using it to back up new points, without actually forthright agreeing that you were previously incorrect. :/

    Regardless, I think it's another important point that Yoda advocates lack of strong emotionality as part of a philosophy. It's not because Yoda's interior processing automatically discards emotions; clearly he has trained himself to calm emotion. If anything, Yoda has a fairly advanced grasp on emotional states and understanding how one emotion can lead to another (focusing on "between" states and dynamic movement is a strong indicator of Ni/Se thought). And that's a perfectly believable thing for an F to do - learning to quell our emotions gives us better self-restraint, and encourages transcendence of emotional states. That's a very Ni concept - removing yourself from the immediate context of your own headspace. Again, we see that Yoda advocates a philosophy - he is focused on ideas and concepts - and he encourages transcendence. Yoda is not a promoter of quelling emotions because they interrupt reasoning, but because they cloud ability to see clearly: Yoda is focused on perception. Yoda is Perceiving-dominant.

    It's almost eerie how well function order fits him, in fact. Yoda is an advanced practitioner of a mind-body martial art (direct experiencing - Se) and uses internal system logic to teach and judge adherence to the Jedi ruleset (discrimination - Ti) that encourages interpersonal harmony and usage of energy between things (interrelationships - Fe) with the goal of fostering peace and justice (concepts - Ni). Yoda, as a J, works to shape his external world rather than his internal landscape. He is essentially a living embodiment of an ideal (the Jedi way), as is unsurprising for a Ni-dom, but would be surprising for a Ti-dom, as Ti-doms tend to focus on objects and systems outside of themselves, not holistic archetypes and transformation - which, even still, are not hallmarks of extraverted iNtuition.

    The boy you trained, gone, he is, consumed by Darth Vader.
    Yoda is focused on transformation; the nature of change from one state to another; holistic universal life energy; how to use that energy; the struggle between Dark and Light. He is concerned with what things indicate and what things will become: Yoda's thinking is iNutition-dominant. He uses his understanding of dynamic processes to prevent internal transfomation; he uses his power of conceptualization to change himself to embody the philosophy he believes will save the universe, and he uses it to change the universe to embody the philosophy he believes in, all from within: Yoda uses internal - introverted - iNtuition. Yoda's thinking is Ni-dominant. Yoda utilizes energy between things and relations between people and political factions to encourage the spread of his philosophy; he sees the Force in terms of connections. Yoda is Fe-auxiliary.

    I have yet to see it demonstrated how Yoda utilizes extraverted Perceiving, particularly extraverted iNtuition, much less extraverted iNtuition secondary to introverted Thinking.

    Yoda is INFJ.

  4. #274
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    Skylights just gave the best argument for Yoda being INFJ on this whole thread! I now think it is more likely that Yoda is INFJ, but INTP is not yet out of the question unless someone can explain not only why Yoda was an INFJ but also why Yoda was not an INTP.

  5. #275
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Skylights just gave the best argument for Yoda being INFJ on this whole thread! I now think it is more likely that Yoda is INFJ, but INTP is not yet out of the question unless someone can explain not only why Yoda was an INFJ but also why Yoda was not an INTP.
    Thank you!

    The reason I didn't give a not-INTP argument is, since everyone uses and demonstrates every aspect of cognition, I find it hard to argue that someone is not a certain type. My argument against INTP essentially lies in that I see more evidence for Yoda demonstrating introverted iNtuitive cognition than introverted Thinking cognition, and more evidence for Yoda demonstrating introverted iNtuitive cognition accompanied by extraverted Feeling cognition than introverted Thinking cognition accompanied by extraverted iNtuition cognition.

    If we utilize the theory of function "roles", we would look for the primary thought pattern to be either restricted or informed by the auxiliary thought process - if the primary is Perceiving, then the auxiliary will restrict the scope of its options; if the primary is Judging, then the auxiliary will inform the scope of its options. In application, if Yoda is an INTP, he will lead with discretionary reasoning (Ti) informed by connections and possibilities (Ne). However, I don't really see this in Yoda. His main aim is concentrated on one huge, overarching goal, not many smaller projects, as you are more likely to see with INTPs. Whereas if he is INFJ, he will lead with conceptualization (Ni) restricted by real-world relations (Fe). I do see this: Yoda is constantly considering how to best mobilize people and efforts to get the best-quality impact and achieve victory* for the Light Side of the Force while hurting the least amount of beings and disrupting the least amount of lives. He also does not seem to manifest any of the general Ne distractedness, as is typically visible in INxPs. He does, however, have his a fair share of INFx quirkiness.

    Yoda also does not seem to demonstrate a high degree of the typical Ti fondness for picking things apart into their working components - Yoda does analyze, but with a focus on understanding dynamic processes and what the nature of the movement indicates about the future. INTPs, with Ne/Si, are more likely to look at the nature of the components themselves and understand how Part A fits into Part B, not how Process A becomes Process B, which is a Ni/Se perception. Yoda also seems to concentrate more on the holistic state of things (N) more than individual flaws (T) - living with two INTPs, one 6w5 and one 9w8, I know that they are pretty darn focused on flaws. I don't see this in Yoda. Nor do I see in Yoda the typical xxxP pattern of being very easygoing up until the point where someone accidentally steps on the toes of their values - we all know where Yoda stands, and even though he is gentle, he is quite rigid about his internal perception. It is, after all - if he is indeed INFJ - his most developed form of cognition.






    *Whereas if he is INFJ, he will lead with conceptualization (Ni) restricted by real-world relations (Fe). I do see this: Yoda is constantly considering how to best mobilize people and efforts to get the best-quality impact and achieve victory [...] Oddly enough, I see Yoda as similar to Hitler in this light. Both are certainly visionary figureheads who led a huge group of people in transforming society. But that is really neither here nor there.

  6. #276
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah... actually... I'd sum it up as "Yoda is not necessarily a T because he advocates lack of strong emotionality." But now you've just gone from saying that Yoda doesn't advocate emotions so he's a T, to Yoda is emotional sometimes and that is coherent with his Tness. I feel like you just kind of agreed with my argument and now are using it to back up new points, without actually forthright agreeing that you were previously incorrect. :/

    Regardless, I think it's another important point that Yoda advocates lack of strong emotionality as part of a philosophy. It's not because Yoda's interior processing automatically discards emotions; clearly he has trained himself to calm emotion.
    There's nothing clear at all. You know nothing about Yoda's training and simply speculate hoping that if we believe your speculation we will believe your point. That doesn't work.

    Yoda is not a promoter of quelling emotions because they interrupt reasoning, but because they cloud ability to see clearly:
    You use differents words who actually mean the same thing. As an INTP, Yoda considers that feelings prevent us to see things in an objective way. While an INFJ would consider that looking at the human factor is essential to have a good understanding. Also, the Jedi order is not monoblock and there's differents current. Qui-Gon Jinn and Dooku, for example, are true IFJs and they have a very different conception of the Force, and difficulties to align with credo to avoid emotions that Yoda never had.


    Yoda is focused on perception. Yoda is Perceiving-dominant.

    You distording the sense of the words and the basic notions of the model. Yoda is about perception. Therefore he is a Perceiver. While IJ are about Judgment but use their dominant Perceiving function to plan and take judgment alone before they express thelselves outward. The INFJ style is Chart-the-Course and has nothing to do with the passive and detached Behind-the-Scene role of the INTP Yoda.


    Yoda is an advanced practitioner of a mind-body martial art (direct experiencing - Se)
    That can also be tertiary Si. There's nothing which indicate that Yoda have the practical action oriented style of Se-user.

    and uses internal system logic to teach and judge adherence to the Jedi ruleset (discrimination - Ti) that encourages interpersonal harmony and usage of energy between things (interrelationships - Fe) with the goal of fostering peace and justice (concepts - Ni). Yoda, as a J, works to shape his external world to mimic his internal landscape.
    Yoda don't promote harmony or internal lanscape. He simply observe that that harmony between thing exists because of the Force, and passively accept it.

    He is essentially a living embodiment of an ideal (the Jedi way), as is unsurprising for a Ni-dom, but would be surprising for a Ti-dom, as Ti-doms tend to focus on objects and systems outside of themselves, not holistic archetypes and transformation - which, even still, are not hallmarks of extraverted iNtuition.
    Yoda live according to an ideal. But it's not his own personal ideal. He live based on the principles of a Jedi philosophy that he considers as objective. Actually, Yoda have problems about being too much based on theses impersonals principles and never consider the human factor at the point to look insensitive and dogmatic. Typically INTP. However, every N are oriented to symbolism and connections between things. Not only NJs. And where are theses things about "holistic archetype of transformation" ? nowhere.

    Yoda is focused on transformation;
    Where?

    BTW, when Yoda tells "The boy you trained, gone, he is, consumed by Darth Vader" he simply harshly and abrasively says to Obi-Wan to have guts and don't act like an emo guy, but do what it is rational to do. He does't want to consider the human factor, like Luke and Padmé who are true INF and persist to see some good in Darth Vader. Yoda is single-minded and not "focus on transformation". He noticed that something in the external world changed (Ne) and judge that it is logical to kill Vader. He ask to Ob-Wan to see things as they are in an objective way, without letting him disturbed by emotions. So he is Ti-dom and repress Fe.

    holistic universal life energy; how to use that energy; the struggle between Dark and Light.
    Every jedis do this. That has nothing especially INFJ-related.

    He is concerned with what things indicate and what things will become:
    Where?

    and he uses it to change the universe
    When did yoda want to change the universe?

    Yoda uses internal - introverted - iNtuition. Yoda's thinking is Ni-dominant.
    Affirmation based on nothing.

    Yoda utilizes energy between things
    Yes, so it's something external to him. Ne.

    BTW, you say he was based on something "internal" just before.

    Contradiction.

    and relations between people and political factions to encourage the spread of his philosophy; he sees the Force in terms of connections. Yoda is Fe-auxiliary.
    When was Yoda people-oriented and politically oriented?

    Seeing abstact connections betwwen things is Ne, not Fe.

    I have yet to see it demonstrated how Yoda utilizes extraverted Perceiving, particularly extraverted iNtuition, much less extraverted iNtuition secondary to introverted Thinking.

    Yoda don't try to create new images on his own (Ni), but to understand the abstract connection between things in the world. He's not Ni, he is Ne.

    Yoda is INFJ.
    No.
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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  7. #277
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah... actually... I'd sum it up as "Yoda is not necessarily a T because he advocates lack of strong emotionality." But now you've just gone from saying that Yoda doesn't advocate emotions so he's a T, to Yoda is emotional sometimes and that is coherent with his Tness. I feel like you just kind of agreed with my argument and now are using it to back up new points, without actually forthright agreeing that you were previously incorrect. :/

    Regardless, I think it's another important point that Yoda advocates lack of strong emotionality as part of a philosophy. It's not because Yoda's interior processing automatically discards emotions; clearly he has trained himself to calm emotion. If anything, Yoda has a fairly advanced grasp on emotional states and understanding how one emotion can lead to another (focusing on "between" states and dynamic movement is a strong indicator of Ni/Se thought). And that's a perfectly believable thing for an F to do - learning to quell our emotions gives us better self-restraint, and encourages transcendence of emotional states. That's a very Ni concept - removing yourself from the immediate context of your own headspace. Again, we see that Yoda advocates a philosophy - he is focused on ideas and concepts - and he encourages transcendence. Yoda is not a promoter of quelling emotions because they interrupt reasoning, but because they cloud ability to see clearly: Yoda is focused on perception. Yoda is Perceiving-dominant.

    It's almost eerie how well function order fits him, in fact. Yoda is an advanced practitioner of a mind-body martial art (direct experiencing - Se) and uses internal system logic to teach and judge adherence to the Jedi ruleset (discrimination - Ti) that encourages interpersonal harmony and usage of energy between things (interrelationships - Fe) with the goal of fostering peace and justice (concepts - Ni). Yoda, as a J, works to shape his external world rather than his internal landscape. He is essentially a living embodiment of an ideal (the Jedi way), as is unsurprising for a Ni-dom, but would be surprising for a Ti-dom, as Ti-doms tend to focus on objects and systems outside of themselves, not holistic archetypes and transformation - which, even still, are not hallmarks of extraverted iNtuition.



    Yoda is focused on transformation; the nature of change from one state to another; holistic universal life energy; how to use that energy; the struggle between Dark and Light. He is concerned with what things indicate and what things will become: Yoda's thinking is iNutition-dominant. He uses his understanding of dynamic processes to prevent internal transfomation; he uses his power of conceptualization to change himself to embody the philosophy he believes will save the universe, and he uses it to change the universe to embody the philosophy he believes in, all from within: Yoda uses internal - introverted - iNtuition. Yoda's thinking is Ni-dominant. Yoda utilizes energy between things and relations between people and political factions to encourage the spread of his philosophy; he sees the Force in terms of connections. Yoda is Fe-auxiliary.

    I have yet to see it demonstrated how Yoda utilizes extraverted Perceiving, particularly extraverted iNtuition, much less extraverted iNtuition secondary to introverted Thinking.

    Yoda is INFJ.
    That's the best use of JCF analysis than I've seen in like - forever!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #278
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Thank you!

    The reason I didn't give a not-INTP argument is, since everyone uses and demonstrates every aspect of cognition, I find it hard to argue that someone is not a certain type. My argument against INTP essentially lies in that I see more evidence for Yoda demonstrating introverted iNtuitive cognition than introverted Thinking cognition, and more evidence for Yoda demonstrating introverted iNtuitive cognition accompanied by extraverted Feeling cognition than introverted Thinking cognition accompanied by extraverted iNtuition cognition.

    If we utilize the theory of function "roles", we would look for the primary thought pattern to be either restricted or informed by the auxiliary thought process - if the primary is Perceiving, then the auxiliary will restrict the scope of its options; if the primary is Judging, then the auxiliary will inform the scope of its options. In application, if Yoda is an INTP, he will lead with discretionary reasoning (Ti) informed by connections and possibilities (Ne). However, I don't really see this in Yoda. His main aim is concentrated on one huge, overarching goal, not many smaller projects, as you are more likely to see with INTPs. Whereas if he is INFJ, he will lead with conceptualization (Ni) restricted by real-world relations (Fe). I do see this: Yoda is constantly considering how to best mobilize people and efforts to get the best-quality impact and achieve the victory of the Light Side of the Force while hurting the least amount of beings and disrupting the least amount of lives. He also does not seem to manifest any of the general Ne distractedness, as is typically visible in INxPs. He does, however, have his a fair share of INFx quirkiness.

    Yoda also does not seem to demonstrate a high degree of the typical Ti fondness for picking things apart into their working components - Yoda does analyze, but with a focus on understanding dynamic processes and what the nature of the movement indicates about the future. INTPs, with Ne/Si, are more likely to look at the nature of the components themselves and understand how Part A fits into Part B, not how Process A becomes Process B, which is a Ni/Se perception. Yoda also seems to concentrate more on the holistic state of things (N) more than individual flaws (T) - living with two INTPs, one 6w5 and one 9w8, I know that they are pretty darn focused on flaws. I don't see this in Yoda. Nor do I see in Yoda the typical xxxP pattern of being very easygoing up until the point where someone accidentally steps on the toes of their values - we all know where Yoda stands, and even though he is gentle, he is quite rigid about his internal perception. It is, after all - if he is indeed INFJ - his most developed form of cognition.
    Intelectual masturbation.

    That's the best use of JCF analysis than I've seen in like - forever!
    Actually, it doesn't make sense and what she says is based on nothing but speculations and distorsions of concepts.


    Skylights just gave the best argument for Yoda being INFJ on this whole thread!
    Every arguments for Yoda being INFJ in this thread were equally false.
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  9. #279
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    You distording the sense of the words and the basic notions of the model. Yoda is about perception. Therefore he is a Perceiver. While IJ are about Judgment but use their dominant Perceiving function to plan and take judgment alone before they express thelselves outward. The INFJ style is Chart-the-Course and has nothing to do with the passive and detached Behind-the-Scene role of the INTP Yoda.
    Do you mean the "passive and detached" Yoda who was in temporary exile in part V, or the "passive and detached" Yoda who was a general in charge of the clone army in part II?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  10. #280
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Do you mean the "passive and detached" Yoda who was in temporary exile in part V, or the "passive and detached" Yoda who was a general in charge of the clone army in part II?
    The jedi clone army was not his idea. And if you read the expanded universe, you see that Yoda is initially reluctant about taking the lead of the clones and think that the jedis should not interfere in the clone war.

    You fail again.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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