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  1. #201
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Luke is a true F. He is driven by feelings and when his relatives are threatened, he must act based on his emotional impulses and can't think. While Yoda is always level-headed and rational. The difference is clear. Luke is a F, Yoda is a T.
    The difference is in their levels of maturity. You're thinking in terms of stereotypes. Skylight's angry INTP father can tell you that INTP is not THE level-headed type, nor is any other T. There is no such thing as a level-headed type. Furthermore, Jung considered both F and T to be rationals. I believe this has also been pointed out to you.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #202
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Every iNtuitors are abstracts in their speech and therefore can look cryptic. Every N, not only INFJs.
    There is a big difference between "abstract" (your term) and "cryptic" (his term).
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #203
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Reading this thread is interesting and painful.

  4. #204
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    The difference is in their levels of maturity. You're thinking in terms of stereotypes. Skylight's angry INTP father can tell you that INTP is not THE level-headed type, nor is any other T. There is no such thing as a level-headed type. Furthermore, Jung considered both F and T to be rationals. I believe this has also been pointed out to you.
    Every descriptions tell that Thinker are level-headed, so being level-headed is a clue that someone is a T. A T can be emotional, but hardly let his emotions guide him to take decisions. And Yoda never let his emotions guide him. Also, maturity has nothing to do with that. Even in the expanded universe, when Luke become far more mature, he still have that strong leaning to look at the human and emotional side to take decision, at a point that Yoda has never been.

    In ROTJ, Luke has matured, but the difference T/F between him and Yoda still clear. Luke want to see the good in Darth Vader and try to help him. Yoda analyse the situation in an harsh and utilitarian way: he is dangerous > so he must die > end of the story.

    There is a big difference between "abstract" (your term) and "cryptic" (his term).
    Actually, Yoda is not cryptic. He is abstract and can be vague (NP), but when he has to explain someting, he can also do it in a harsh, precise and concise way.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  5. #205
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    If Yoda is INTP than a lot of the Buddhist thinkers he's modeled after such as Buddha and Lao Tzu might be INTP (or they might all be INFJ).

  6. #206
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    By your definitions Speedy I'd be an ISTP... I don't think it really works that way.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #207
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Every descriptions tell that Thinker are level-headed, so being level-headed is a clue that someone is a T.
    I have just read http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html and it said nothing about their being level-headed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    A T can be emotional, but hardly let his emotions guide him to take decisions.
    Are you sure about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    And Yoda never let his emotions guide him.
    Are you sure about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Also, maturity has nothing to do with that. Even in the expanded universe, when Luke become far more mature, he still have that strong leaning to look at the human and emotional side to take decision, at a point that Yoda has never been.
    Duh, Luke is an Fi-dom. While Yoda has Feeling in the second function position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    In ROTJ, Luke has matured, but the difference T/F between him and Yoda still clear. Luke want to see the good in Darth Vader and try to help him. Yoda analyse the situation in an harsh and utilitarian way: he is dangerous > so he must die > end of the story.
    Actually, Yoda counseled Luke not to underestimate the power of the Emperor. But if Yoda is "harsh and utilitarian" then that is a good argument for him being a Sensing type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Actually, Yoda is not cryptic. He is abstract and can be vague (NP), but when he has to explain someting, he can also do it in a harsh, precise and concise way.
    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #208
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Reading this thread is interesting and painful.
    Yeah, just like this!

    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #209
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I have just read http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html and it said nothing about their being level-headed.
    Are you sure about that?
    Are you sure about that?
    Thinker tend to be level-headed in diffcult situation. Every descriptions say it, even if they don't necessarly use that word in particulary, the sense still the same.


    Duh, Luke is an Fi-dom. While Yoda has Feeling in the second function position.
    Sophism. An Fe-aux is as much F than a Fi dom. Just like a Te-aux like Obi-Wan is as much T than a Ti dom like Yoda.


    Actually, Yoda counseled Luke not to underestimate the power of the Emperor.
    That's just an objective obseravation about the power of the enemy. Analysis. Nothing especially INFJ related.

    But if Yoda is "harsh and utilitarian" then that is a good argument for him being a Sensing type.
    No. Every Thinkers tend to be harsh. And the utilitarian temperaments are the Artisans and the Rationals.


    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
    Yoda is simplu telling to luke to see consider things as they truly are. So it's about objective truth (Ti) not personal vision (Ni). Yoda manipulate ideas, but it's not hiw own idea or planning for the future. It's just an objective vision of the world.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #210
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Thinking (T)
    When I make a decision, I like to find the basic truth or principle to be applied, regardless of the specific situation involved. I like to analyze pros and cons, and then be consistent and logical in deciding. I try to be impersonal, so I won’t let my personal wishes--or other people’s wishes--influence me.
    Yoda is totally like this.

    The following statements generally apply to me:

    I enjoy technical and scientific fields where logic is important.
    Yodais not a scientist. Doesn't mean that he is a F though.

    I notice inconsistencies.
    Cleraly him. None inconstiencies can pass withiut being noticed through his radar.

    I look for logical explanations or solutions to most everything.
    Completely.

    I make decisions with my head and want to be fair
    This. Yoda always take decisions with his head, never with his heart.


    I believe telling the truth is more important than being tactful.
    Him. Yoda always tell the truth and never give a shit about being tactful.

    Sometimes I miss or don’t value the “people” part of a situation.
    Once again, it's completely him.

    I can be seen as too task-oriented, uncaring, or indifferent.
    Him.

    Feeling (F)
    I believe I can make the best decisions by weighing what people care about and the points-of-view of persons involved in a situation. I am concerned with values and what is the best for the people involved. I like to do whatever will establish or maintain harmony.
    LOL. Is that supposed to be Yoda? I laugh.

    In my relationships, I appear caring, warm, and tactful.
    He can be a bit like this, but only after the harsh and impersonal analysis have been done. Never before.

    The following statements generally apply to me:

    I have a people or communications orientation.

    Not him.

    I am concerned with harmony and nervous when it is missing.
    Yoda has never been nervous. And where is the "harmony" thing? Nowhere.

    I look for what is important to others and express concern for others.
    Same than before. Yoda can express some concern forr others but only after his critical anylsiis have been done, and what is important for others have no place in his decision making process.

    I make decisions with my heart and want to be compassionate.

    Not him at all.

    I believe being tactful is more important than telling the “cold” truth.
    He is the contrary of that.

    Sometimes I miss seeing or communicating the “hard truth” of situations.
    He is the contrary of that.

    I am sometimes experienced by others as too idealistic, mushy, or indirect.
    HAHA! LOL!


    So, the proof is there: Yoda is not a Feeler, but a Thinker. That's it.

    The only few clues that Yoda could be F is nat he is not a scientist and that he is nice sometimes. So, that's I have said before: your argument is "Yoda have a job where he is in contact with persons and is nice sometimes so he is a F". Sorry but that doesn't work.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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