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  1. #161
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    As I ever said, INTPs are often put in great considerations for their wise too, and searched for their counseling.
    As an aside, living with two INTPs, I feel like it is necessary to point out that while INTPs may be sought for counseling, they are usually more interested in theoretical mechanics and counseling quickly moves into instruction which quickly moves into demonstration, which is essentially watching an INTP do what an INTP does best.

    Whereas Yoda in typical NiFe form uses his understanding of the energy between himself and the other person (Fe) to encourage the other person to engage the concept he is envisioning and pushing the person towards (Ni). Fe teaching seems generally about "drawing out" abilities.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    As an aside, living with two INTPs, I feel like it is necessary to point out that while INTPs may be sought for counseling, they are usually more interested in theoretical mechanics and counseling quickly moves into instruction which quickly moves into demonstration, which is essentially watching an INTP do what an INTP does best.

    Whereas Yoda in typical NiFe form uses his understanding of the energy between himself and the other person (Fe) to encourage the other person to engage the concept he is envisioning and pushing the person towards (Ni). Fe teaching seems generally about "drawing out" abilities.
    It's not even relevant to ask whether someone is approached for counseling. Luke did not approach Yoda. It's just something I see Yoda doing naturally.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #163
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It's not even relevant to ask whether someone is approached for counseling. Luke did not approach Yoda. It's just something I see Yoda doing naturally.
    Yes, true. Especially seeing as Yoda is in the business of helping find and train new Jedi knights.

    He was also a general in the Clone Wars, incidentally. He might be calm and patient but he is not passive.

  4. #164
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Feeling does not equal emotion. Feeling is about ethic, and value-based judgment: what things mean to people.
    Yeah, but Yoda don't do value-based judgement. Elsewhere, Thinkers are concerned about ethics too, but it is based on principles, not on values. As it is the case in Yoda.

    Maintaining calm and serenity does not mean the F functions are not involved in decision-making.
    It's not only about maintaining calm and serenity. It said "no feeling", so to avoid feeling in the judgment process. A person who do that is a Thinker, not a F. And true Feelers like Anakin have a problem with that.


    And we can look at any impassioned INTP and see the reverse is true, as well. And all types can value peace. My ESFJ boyfriend is very much about peace - he is a 9w1, after all.
    So Yoda could be any type. Except that there's crucials clues that he's not a Feeler.

    Since when have INTPs had a monopoly on knowledge?
    I simply mean that Yoda is not necessarly INFJ, bu as I said

    there's crucials clues that he's not a Feeler

    Again, passion is not monopolized by F types.
    Indeed, but the jedi code prescribe to avoid it in the decision-making process. Which is hard for a F but is not for Yoda, who is a T.


    Actually, the change of frame of reference is very INxJ. It's a new way of looking at things.
    Being interested by an alternative way to look at things is typycally NP.


    Just because he is less emotional does not make him a T.
    So, what makes him a F?


    My ESFJ 9w1 boyfriend is far less emotional than my INTP 6w5 dad, who is regularly in some fiery state. I am not avoiding that argument; I am saying it is a logical fallacy. Feeling is not emotion. They are two totally separate concepts, though they can involve one another. The same holds true for believing that a "harsh" teacher could only be a T. I am a fan of sink-or-swim, too, and I am an F! If you have faith that the person can succeed - a typical NF sort of belief - then there is no cruelty in sink-or-swim, because you know that the person will be just fine. It's not about social skills at all, it's about the application of NF style humanistic growth to an individual. Your arguments here are rooted purely in stereotype.
    You're just saying "Yoda is not necessarly a T" without bring any proof that he is a F.

    F is about being driven by emotions in the decision making process. Every book say it. If you have sources which say the contray, show it. It's also being driven by subjectivity. There's nothing about this in Yoda. He always stay calm, objective and impartial even in the most difficult situations.


    Yoda is the leader of arguably the most powerful underground rebel organization in the galaxy working to stop the growing forces of the Dark Side and actively promoting peace and justice through the utilization of philosophical teachings combined with instructing quasi-martial art training. That makes him primarily a passive and detached analyzer?
    Yes, he's just a small creature staying in a swamp. And he perceived a growth of the Dark Side during two centuries without doing anthing.


    Once again, Fe is not about emotional attachment. It is about interpersonal harmony. It is about understanding ties between things. Just like this:
    It is about emotional attachment, interpersonal harmony is just another side. How Yoda care about "interpersonal harmony". Understand tie between things can be Ne-Fe and INTPs are pattern-seekers.
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  5. #165
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    You explained it, and Skylights knocked down your explanation.
    No.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    It's probablty the most stupid thing I read on the thread. Above all INFJs tend strongly to argue with feelings, something that Yoda never do. An idea can be logic, logic can be express in an idea. The dichotomy you etablished is based on nothing.
    There's a clear factual difference between (Ti types) arguing mainly with logic and reason and (Ni types) mainly with ideas and general theses. INFJs don't argue mainly with feelings, those are INFPs and ENFJs.

  7. #167
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    As an aside, living with two INTPs, I feel like it is necessary to point out that while INTPs may be sought for counseling, they are usually more interested in theoretical mechanics and counseling quickly moves into instruction which quickly moves into demonstration, which is essentially watching an INTP do what an INTP does best.

    Whereas Yoda in typical NiFe form uses his understanding of the energy between himself and the other person (Fe) to encourage the other person to engage the concept he is envisioning and pushing the person towards (Ni). Fe teaching seems generally about "drawing out" abilities.
    Yoda is not "drawing out " abilities. He dosn't understand the potential of Luke at first and judge him at a critical level only. Then he just explained him what he knows and that's all. He's never warm with Luke except just before his death. INTP's are idea-people too, so Yoda being an idea parson doesn't prove that he is not INTP.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  8. #168
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    There's a factual difference between types arguing mainly with logic and mainly with ideas.
    Show it.

    INFJ don't argue mainly with feelings, those are INFPs.
    INFJs are as much Feeler than INFPs and obiously more than INTPs. Except that Yoda never use feelings to explain things.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #169
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post

    Yes, he's just a small creature staying in a swamp. And he perceived a growth of the Dark Side during two centuries without doing anthing.
    Of course, that was his planet of exile after the prequels, and for as long as it took to make a move against the Empire.

    Yes, Yoda was aware of the Dark Side growing stronger, but it also prevented him from making a decision by blocking his intuition. That's why he spent a lot of time in the prequels looking confused. And then, when he found something to fight against, he fought (Dooku).

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    It is about emotional attachment, interpersonal harmony is just another side. How Yoda care about "interpersonal harmony". Understand tie between things can be Ne-Fe and INTPs are pattern-seekers.
    Skylights is correct. And you yourself know that Feeling is about values such as interpersonal harmony, not about emotions.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #170
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Yoda is not "drawing out " abilities. He dosn't understand the potential of Luke at first and judge him at a critical level only. Then he just explained him what he knows and that's all. He's never warm with Luke except just before his death. INTP's are idea-people too, so Yoda being an idea parson doesn't prove that he is not INTP.
    Well, Yoda must have seen some potential or else he wouldn't have tried to make him a Jedi master. This is all canon. But potentiality does not equal actuality. To make the potential real requires the drawing out of abilities that Skylights mentioned.

    "Being warm" with Luke is just you digging yourself in deeper.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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