• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Ted Bundy

ZPowers

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
He always picked the same look though; brunette long hair, demurre, etc. Did I hear that they resembled his mother? Or did I just intuit that?

Well, If I remember, for much of his life he was led to believe the person who was his mother was actually his grandmother and the person he thought was his sister was really his mother (this exact same thing, by the way, happened to Jack Nicholson).

Whether his victims were picked because they looked like someone in particular or because they were just "his type," I don't know. I tend to believe the latter. He certainly didn't kill whomever that original person was.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Well, we should see what his mother looked like in her 30's and 40's...
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
I would need to know more about Bundy himself, and avoid theorizing about function orders until I know more. Your post starts with a theory and then looks for those facts which serve to justify your theory. That is confirmation bias. Reality should come before theory.

I wrote it that way, but I didn't think it that order. Too used to writing reports I guess - you always start with the executive summary, then explain it afterwards.

Actually, you are right that reality comes before theory, but theory tends to come before understanding reality. Thats how science works - observe an event, theorise about its cause, then test the theory to see if it holds. That's something that is easier in the hard sciences than in psychology, but the basic idea holds. Confirmational bias is a real danger there, but that's the problem of using the human mind to examine itself. It's a bit like using a mirror to see an inlarge image of the magnifying glass you are looking through.
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
This isn't true. His victims were picked entirely at random. He made a point of never, ever attempting to abduct or kill anyone he had even possibly met before, and in interviews claimed he made a point of staying away from female acquaintances or girlfriends when his "rage was building."

You might argue he had resentment towards women in general (I'm not sure how true that is either: he was considered handsome and charming by most women who had known him), but he certainly had no personal animosity towards his victims.

The phrase "anyone who resembled her" doesn't imply that he had a deep relationship with them. My point was, he was trying to extend the hostile encounter even after the original cause of his rage was gone. It was a turning towards, rather than a turning away. If the actual perpetrator was missing, someone else would do instead, but some poor fucker was going to get it because he was missed off.


He always picked the same look though; brunette long hair, demurre, etc. Did I hear that they resembled his mother? Or did I just intuit that?

I think it was the girlfriend who rejected him, but like I said before, I don't know the details of his story that well, so I might be wrong on the details. Eitherway, he definitely had a pattern based around someone.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I wrote it that way, but I didn't think it that order. Too used to writing reports I guess - you always start with the executive summary, then explain it afterwards.

Actually, you are right that reality comes before theory, but theory tends to come before understanding reality. Thats how science works - observe an event, theorise about its cause, then test the theory to see if it holds. That's something that is easier in the hard sciences than in psychology, but the basic idea holds. Confirmational bias is a real danger there, but that's the problem of using the human mind to examine itself. It's a bit like using a mirror to see an inlarge image of the magnifying glass you are looking through.

I'm a low Fe type but I'm not a Ted Bundy, obviously. Maybe he was a serial killer with high Fe. I can't associate Fe with serial killing without something more.
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
This isn't true. His victims were picked entirely at random. He made a point of never, ever attempting to abduct or kill anyone he had even possibly met before, and in interviews claimed he made a point of staying away from female acquaintances or girlfriends when his "rage was building."

You might argue he had resentment towards women in general (I'm not sure how true that is either: he was considered handsome and charming by most women who had known him), but he certainly had no personal animosity towards his victims.

I'm a low Fe type but I'm not a Ted Bundy, obviously. Maybe he was a serial killer with high Fe. I can't associate Fe with serial killing without something more.

I

Relax, no-one with a brain is saying all low Fe types are serial killers, any more than I was saying that all low Fi types are sociopathic fuck-heads.

The first thing to understand about functions is to know how broad they are. Think about it - there are 7 billion people on this planet, all a little different, but only 16 types to put them into. The only way that can work is if they are wide enough to park a fleet of battleshipsin. Nose to nose, at that.

When talking about serial killers you are liable to end up considering the very worst aspects of any type or function. If Ted Bundy was a TP that doesn't reflect on you any more than the idea that Hitler was an INJ casts me into suspicion.

I often see people asking questions of the form "What type is most likely to do xyz". I'd say the question itself is wrong, because function theory can't answer it. All it does is provide a frame work for understanding the way people think. A much better question is "Why would a given type do this".

Fe is the need to respond to what is seen as socially a nessesary or opportunity. When it manifests in a good way you see people who go out of their way to help other or just smooth things over. A healthy but low order Fe can often be seen in teachers whos interests are led by Ti, but love to share the joy in what they do with others, helping them to reach their potential. In less lovable cases, it makes people overly concerned about how people percieve them, or a need to be the alpha. Such peoples egos can be badly effected by social rejection.

If you sit down and think about it for awhile you'll be able think of many other ways Fe in a given type can work. Explore those battleships as muchas you want, there's a lot to see. Certainly I don't claim to know every possible aspect of each type - there's just too many. I rather like it when someone shows me one I've missed.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Relax, no-one with a brain is saying all low Fe types are serial killers, any more than I was saying that all low Fi types are sociopathic fuck-heads.

The first thing to understand about functions is to know how broad they are. Think about it - there are 7 billion people on this planet, all a little different, but only 16 types to put them into. The only way that can work is if they are wide enough to park a fleet of battleshipsin. Nose to nose, at that.

When talking about serial killers you are liable to end up considering the very worst aspects of any type or function. If Ted Bundy was a TP that doesn't reflect on you any more than the idea that Hitler was an INJ casts me into suspicion.

I often see people asking questions of the form "What type is most likely to do xyz". I'd say the question itself is wrong, because function theory can't answer it. All it does is provide a frame work for understanding the way people think. A much better question is "Why would a given type do this".

Fe is the need to respond to what is seen as socially a nessesary or opportunity. When it manifests in a good way you see people who go out of their way to help other or just smooth things over. A healthy but low order Fe can often be seen in teachers whos interests are led by Ti, but love to share the joy in what they do with others, helping them to reach their potential. In less lovable cases, it makes people overly concerned about how people percieve them, or a need to be the alpha. Such peoples egos can be badly effected by social rejection.

If you sit down and think about it for awhile you'll be able think of many other ways Fe in a given type can work. Explore those battleships as muchas you want, there's a lot to see. Certainly I don't claim to know every possible aspect of each type - there's just too many. I rather like it when someone shows me one I've missed.

I agree that Fe is used differently by different types. But what I'm not seeing is a good idea of what it means to have inferior Fe. This has to manifest itself in a particular way, not by TP but specifically by the Ti-dom as that is the only function with inferior Fe. A better example would be Ti-dom Ted Kaczinski. But it doesn't explain why Fe-inferior manifested itself on an attack on social structures.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I agree that Fe is used differently by different types. But what I'm not seeing is a good idea of what it means to have inferior Fe. This has to manifest itself in a particular way, not by TP but specifically by the Ti-dom as that is the only function with inferior Fe. A better example would be Ti-dom Ted Kaczinski. But it doesn't explain why Fe-inferior manifested itself on an attack on social structures.

Inferior Fe actually would be inclined to attack social structures, and all they represent to the rejected inferior.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Inferior Fe actually would be inclined to attack social structures, and all they represent to the rejected inferior.

I question them, but I don't blow them up.
 

ZPowers

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I question them, but I don't blow them up.

Again though, not everyone with the same function or set of function behaves the exact same way. Einstein is usually considered an INTP, as am I, and though I find certain concepts and aspects of theoretical psychics interesting, I don't research and heavily study them.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
ISFJ

Repetitive and pre-planned with his methods, past and status oriented (cared a lot about his ancestry and achieving in school and society, before giving up), earned to have a normal relationship, plus other unhealthy-ISFJ tendencies such as super possessive tendencies and being materialistically oriented.
 

Porcelain Hearts

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
167
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
The problem with sociopaths is that they can lie without a conscience. Living without a conscience is like living with no visible boundaries. It makes them excellent manipulators and even better self-manipulators. They can convince themselves they've done no wrong after slipping into a murdering spree. When you attain "serial" status, I think it's what separates an expert deceiver to just a lucky one. Ted still had quite a bit of contact between people, had great people skills and wore many masks.

This is what makes sociopaths extremely hard to type, but my best guess for Ted is ENTP.
 

ZPowers

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
They can convince themselves they've done no wrong after slipping into a murdering spree.

I'd say this is even too kind an assessment. They know full well they've done wrong, but there's no need to convince themselves otherwise. It's not a source of angst or pain. Hell, they might be more honest with themselves in terms of their wrong-doing than anyone, they just don't care.
 
R

Riva

Guest
Is Ted Bundy a psychopath or a sociopath? I guess he was a sociopath.

I'd say this is even too kind an assessment. They know full well they've done wrong, but there's no need to convince themselves otherwise. It's not a source of angst or pain. Hell, they might be more honest with themselves in terms of their wrong-doing than anyone, they just don't care.

The scary psychopaths are actually the ones who never go on killing sprees. They are the ones who are living among us. Infact I dislike using the word scary for them. I prefer to use the word disgusting. Because that's what they are. Hopefully no one would make a comment defending psychopaths saying us to not stereotype them.
 

ZPowers

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Is Ted Bundy a psychopath or a sociopath? I guess he was a sociopath.

I think a lot of people answer that differently. They used to use the term psychopath exclusively, but altered it to and/or sociopath like they do with certain medical/psychological terms every so often. I think in criminal investigation the terms may mean distinctive things, relating to level of planning and intelligence among consistently violent criminals. I've also heard psychopaths are more genetically altered, sociopaths are more environmentally motivated. It's kind of a fuzzy set of terms, usually interchangeable. Both basically mean someone who lacks the capacity for empathy (which, as you noted, could be Ted Bundy, the vulturous CEO of some morally bankrupt company, or your emotionally manipulative neighbor).

I doubt anyone will try to defend them. They're unique in that way. Pretty much any non-sociopath in the world agrees they lack... I dunno, the most important part of a human? The humanity? I'm not sure how to describe it just now. The only possible defense I can see is that they didn't choose to be sociopathic, but they also have no issue with the fact that they lack that part.

I took a class on various psychological disorders back in the day and sociopaths stand alone as the only group that is regarded as completely impossible to treat or cure, in part because they have absolutely no desire to be 'cured.'
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
I took a class on various psychological disorders back in the day and sociopaths stand alone as the only group that is regarded as completely impossible to treat or cure, in part because they have absolutely no desire to be 'cured.'

How are you going to treat them anyway? It's not like there is a pill that will make you experience empathy or generate growth in the part of the brain that produces the sensation of "guilt".
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I took a class on various psychological disorders back in the day and sociopaths stand alone as the only group that is regarded as completely impossible to treat or cure, in part because they have absolutely no desire to be 'cured.'

No, people with Borderline Personality Disorder have no desire to be cured. Psychopaths are the reason why we have the death penalty.
 

ZPowers

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
No, people with Borderline Personality Disorder have no desire to be cured. Psychopaths are the reason why we have the death penalty.

That may be true, but my recollection is that there are methods of treatment of borderline disorder (therapy and pills). I thought it could be mitigated in a way sociopathy couldn't. But I may be wrong.

And though I'm not a fan of the death penalty, I agree that people like Bundy are the biggest temptation I have for it.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
That may be true, but my recollection is that there are methods of treatment of borderline disorder (therapy and pills). I thought it could be mitigated in a way sociopathy couldn't. But I may be wrong.

And though I'm not a fan of the death penalty, I agree that people like Bundy are the biggest temptation I have for it.

Oh yes, BPD can be treated. It's just hard to catch those slippery little suckers. They'll eternally make excuses for why they can't see a therapist as they're busy punching you, or attempting suicide.

But yes, the people with BPD who actually do acquiesce to treatment can be treated. It's just very difficult to get them there. They looooove blaming other people.

I was just saying that I believe that the death penalty exists for people like Ted Bundy. It's just practical, pragmatic. Why keep someone alive who is just going to be a complicated danger to others, who can never be treated?
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
I agree that Fe is used differently by different types. But what I'm not seeing is a good idea of what it means to have inferior Fe. This has to manifest itself in a particular way, not by TP but specifically by the Ti-dom as that is the only function with inferior Fe. A better example would be Ti-dom Ted Kaczinski. But it doesn't explain why Fe-inferior manifested itself on an attack on social structures.

Hang on, why inferior Fe? I never said that. I just said low order, which could mean either tertiary or inferior (or opposing/critical for that matter, but I don't think so in this case).

In any event, when inferior Fe is being rejected it is often seen as a stubbon refusal to even consider the idea that doing something to fit in might be ok, often extending to cover rejecting the idea of doing something that just happens to be popular. Like refusing to listen to a particular band because lots of people like them, even if they happen to good. Such peope often end up using society to define everything that their not going to be... and thus end up being shaped by it almost as much as a conformist! They can be rather in-your-face about it too - "Look at me! I'm different, so fuck you!"

In other cases inferior Fe users can be the conformists when the function goes in hyperdrive, leaving them unable to cope with social rejection at all. They go out of their way to fit in to the point of betraying what they really believe in.

It doesn't have to be like that, of course. A more balanced inferior Fe can give a rather solitart ITP just enough social drive to assure they don't become isolated without sending them into neurotic circles.
 
Top