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Thread: Ted Bundy

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Is the article actually saying that the police threw a 9 yo boy in jail?
    Into custody. A house for difficult children perhaps.

    I have nothing to add on your other points

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    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Whatevs. Why are you protecting him from having an incestuous and abusive background?

    Serial killers are made in childhood. Not as adults, spurned or not.
    I don't know if you can call it protecting. It just either happened or it didn't. It's simply finding an accurate portrayal.

    Childhood trauma is a recurring trend in killers, but not a necessary one. Ted Bundy may have been abused, but as far as I know there isn't solid evidence to support that. My understanding of Jeffrey Dahmer's childhood is that, though his parents had a rough marriage, Dahmer himself was not personally abused. And I know pretty much for certain that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had perfectly normal childhoods.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Michael is a diagnosed psychopath child who was raised in a normal environment by a mother with a degree in child psychology.
    From article:

    By the time he turned 5, Michael had developed an uncanny ability to switch from full-blown anger to moments of pure rationality or calculated charm — a facility that Anne describes as deeply unsettling. “You never know when you’re going to see a proper emotion,” she said. She recalled one argument, over a homework assignment, when Michael shrieked and wept as she tried to reason with him. “I said: ‘Michael, remember the brainstorming we did yesterday? All you have to do is take your thoughts from that and turn them into sentences, and you’re done!’ He’s still screaming bloody murder, so I say, ‘Michael, I thought we brainstormed so we could avoid all this drama today.’ He stopped dead, in the middle of the screaming, turned to me and said in this flat, adult voice, ‘Well, you didn’t think that through very clearly then, did you?’ ”
    Holy sh*t!!
    Okay, that's completely a FOM*.
    Even from a 9-10 year old, but it sounds more like it happened when he was 6-7.

    It suggests ruthless cunning.

    *Freak Out Moment

    More fun:
    In some children, C.U. traits manifest in obvious ways. Paul Frick, a psychologist at the University of New Orleans who has studied risk factors for psychopathy in children for two decades, described one boy who used a knife to cut off the tail of the family cat bit by bit, over a period of weeks. The boy was proud of the serial amputations, which his parents initially failed to notice. “When we talked about it, he was very straightforward,” Frick recalls. “He said: ‘I want to be a scientist, and I was experimenting. I wanted to see how the cat would react.’ ”

    In another famous case, a 9-year-old boy named Jeffrey Bailey pushed a toddler into the deep end of a motel swimming pool in Florida. As the boy struggled and sank to the bottom, Bailey pulled up a chair to watch. Questioned by the police afterward, Bailey explained that he was curious to see someone drown. When he was taken into custody, he seemed untroubled by the prospect of jail but was pleased to be the center of attention...
    Definitely outside the normal realm. Kids are typically not detached from such things to such a degree -- they are capable of doing such things once or two until they realize the impact of their actions, or they act out of anger as a form of revenge... but this is the kind of clinical complete indifference that we see in the case material for adult psychopaths.

    Note also how the parents can be fairly educated and other children in the family might seem to be very "normal" and not exhibiting such behavior.

    Not to suggest that bad parenting can't contribute to some cases of adult anti-social behavior (we've discussed Kemper somewhere, and he was in a split home, separated from his dad who seemed to not want him, and stuck in the basement by his mother because she was afraid he'd "rape his sisters'... contributing to his natural detachment, although it seems likely he shot his grandmother out of displaced anger at his mother, and the rest of the crimes followed....)
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  4. #124
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    (Examples of sociopathic childhood behavior)
    That's interesting (and scary). I know that torturing animals and setting fires is pretty common among very young psychopaths.

    The real origins of psychopathy and other disorders is an interesting topic. Could deserve its own thread
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    The real origins of psychopathy and other disorders is an interesting topic. Could deserve its own thread
    heck. It could be a book (and/or a large collection of them).

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    That's interesting (and scary). I know that torturing animals and setting fires is pretty common among very young psychopaths.
    I think the magic three are:
    1. Fire setting.
    2. Torturing animals.
    3. Bed-wetting.

    I mean, I can kind of see it -- fire is very very accessible, kind of fascinating to observe, is destructive/changes the state of something so you want to see happens after, gives a sense of power, etc.

    Same thing with animals, and it's like you are just viewing them as machines to take apart and figure out what they do... but there's still a sense of efficacy there, where you have the ability to control something.

    Bed-wetting is an odd one. I'd speculate it has something to do with not following parental/social mores (since it's something we are taught to do when young) -- controlling the natural urges in order to integrate into society and please our authority figures. Sometimes bed wetting is an overt form of defiance. But in any case, if someone does not want to regulate their natural urges... that can carry over into other areas. The rules that keep us from murdering/abusing each other are basically regulating biological instincts...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    heck. It could be a book (and/or a large collection of them).
    Well, the definitive book relating to impressionable youngsters being turned into inconsiderate, selfish adults has already been written.

    It's called Atlas Shrugged.

    (Ba-dum-TISH)
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuttou View Post
    Generally speaking, serial killers are serial killers because it's in their nature or because of a traumatic background (and such a trauma can probably also happen in adulthood). I happen to think Ted is the first case. Psychopaths exist and they are born that way. I'm absolutely not protecting him from anything, you're the one insisting he was abused without answering my arguments.

    (Note: Being spurned by the woman of your life can absolutely led to murder. It has many time, though I'm not sure this is the case here. It may be part of it.)

    Nah. Psychopathy and sociopathy, addiction, and most disorders and neuroses (if not all) are bred in childhood through some toxic elixir of abuse and neglect and abandonment. It's not nature at all. Sure, some brain biology could perhaps make one predisposed to be imbalanced mentally, but what makes one antisocial is one's environment.
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  8. #128
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Nah. Psychopathy and sociopathy, addiction, and most neuroses are bred in childhood through some toxic elixir of abuse and neglect and abandonment. It's not nature at all. Sure, some brain biology could perhaps make one predisposed to be imbalanced mentally, but what makes one antisocial is one's environment.
    Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made.

    Disagree emphatically. Unless this is some semantics fap.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made.
    That's still being debated:
    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-...-sociopath.htm

    One problem is that the terms overlap so much in definition and in practice. No one can agree on the distinction.

    EDIT: I have to say, the whole Bundy thing now is driving me to buy Rule's most recent edition of his bio and read it!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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